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Author Topic:   Toward a Theory of Design
designtheorist
Member (Idle past 3833 days)
Posts: 390
From: Irvine, CA, United States
Joined: 09-15-2011


(1)
Message 1 of 5 (633739)
09-15-2011 11:16 PM


I am a skeptic of evolution. I am also aware no other theory of origins is as well formed and developed as evolution. I would like to start a discussion on developing a theory of design. I am not interested in discussing non-science. I am a Christian and proud of that, but I also believe all truth is one. I do not see a battle between science and the Bible. Understanding science better can help us interpret the Bible better.
A solid theory of design needs to be able to withstand valid criticisms from those who are skeptical of design, so I think this forum is a good place to discuss it.
Building a scientific framework is like building a philosophical framework. You have to start with a good foundation or the construct will collapse of its own weight.
Currently I have three proposed cornerstones for Design Theory:
1. The Big Bang shows the universe had a beginning.
2. The universe has been finely tuned.
3. The theory of abiogenesis has virtually no scientific support and is vulnerable to falsification.
I am willing to discuss any of these points. Eventually, I will want to go on to discussing the next building blocks for a valid and useful theory. For the time being, let's limit the discussion to these three. Any takers?
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Checked box for "Email Notification: Registered members can have email sent to them whenever someone replies." PM from author indicate that he wanted such.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by designtheorist, posted 09-16-2011 12:36 AM designtheorist has not replied
 Message 3 by Adminnemooseus, posted 09-16-2011 12:55 AM designtheorist has replied

  
designtheorist
Member (Idle past 3833 days)
Posts: 390
From: Irvine, CA, United States
Joined: 09-15-2011


Message 2 of 5 (633744)
09-16-2011 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by designtheorist
09-15-2011 11:16 PM


A Quick Follow-Up
I've had a chance to read a few more posts just now and think I should have clarified a few points.
Discussion of the Big Bang is part of the theory of origins. It is also part of the theory of evolution. You cannot discuss animals without discussing their habitat and where they came from.
Abiogenesis is also part of the theory of evolution, it is the very start. Abiogenesis may be the portion of the evolutionary theory which is truly falsifiable.
I should have provided a little support for my assertions that these three points are a strong foundation for a future theory of design. I will do that now.
1. The Big Bang shows the universe had a beginning. Prior to Georges LeMaitre's (a Catholic physicist) proposal of the Big Bang theory in 1931, scientists believed the universe had always existed. Einstein was not welcoming of the theory but eventually came around and proposed LeMaitre receive scientific awards for his theory (which was built on Einstein's Theory of General Relativity). Most scientists ignored Big Bang theory because it conflicted with their world view. Arthur Eddington, an atheist and expert in general relativity, studied Big Bang theory and said The beginning seems to present insuperable difficulties unless we agree to look on it as frankly supernatural. (Arthur Eddington, The Expanding Universe, p. 178) Big Bang theory really caught on in 1964 when cosmic background microwave radiation (CBMR) was discovered, said to be a confirmation of the theory. Robert Jastrow, an agnostic, astrophysicist and founder of NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies, wrote a book titled God and the Astronomers. The book told the story of the discovery of CBMR and how it shook the scientific world because it confirmed the universe had a beginning. Physics teaches that energy can be neither created or destroyed. So where did all that energy come from? If nothing existed inside our space-time continuum, what or who existed outside of space-time to make it happen? Now we see how the astronomical evidence leads to a biblical view of the origin of the world. The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced sharply and suddenly at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy (Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers, p. 14). The Big Bang certainly changed the minds of the scientists who studied it most closely.
2. The universe has been finely tuned. Nova, on PBS, broadcast a terrific show with Brian Greene titled "The Elegant Universe." In one scene, Greene is turning about 20 dials to illustrate there are about 20 finely tuned aspects to the universe. If even one of them was off by just a little, the universe would cease to exist or no longer support life. Most libraries have a copy on DVD. A book by Martin Rees is similar. Just Six Numbers: The Deep Forces That Shape The Universe is described in an editorial review like this: "Just six numbers govern the shape, size, and texture of our universe. If their values were only fractionally different, we would not exist: nor, in many cases, would matter have had a chance to form." A finely tuned universe does not display the type of randomness one would expect with the Second Law of Thermodynamics reigning supreme. The probability of it happening by chance seems ludicrous.
3. The theory of abiogenesis has virtually no scientific support and is vulnerable to falsification. The support in favor of abiogenesis is depressingly minute. Here's a short summary of the best evidence we have for abiogenesis. First, the recent discovery of two of the four nucleobases necessary for life on a meteorite. This is evidence complex molecules can form in outer space. In 1969, a meteorite landed in Australia with amino acids. Nucleobases are far more complex than amino acids. In one experiment, amino acids were put into a large gun and fired in a way to simulate the crashing of a meteorite. Researchers were able to show that some of the amino acids had linked up to form peptides. Here's the bad news - peptides and nucleobases are a long way from a living organism. This scant evidence is not worthy to be called support for a theory. This is not a theory which grew out of evidence but a theory in search of evidence. I believe it is possible to falsify this theory and am working on the design of experiments to do exactly that.
So, these three points are the foundation for a theory still under development. Please tell me what you think the strengths and weaknesses of the evidence so far.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by designtheorist, posted 09-15-2011 11:16 PM designtheorist has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Adminnemooseus, posted 09-21-2011 10:06 PM designtheorist has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


(2)
Message 3 of 5 (633745)
09-16-2011 12:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by designtheorist
09-15-2011 11:16 PM


Going for more focus
I am a skeptic of evolution.
Around these parts, unless otherwise qualified, the term evolution refers to biological evolution. However, I'm thinking that you're thinking of the big evolution of everything evolution. We need much more focused topics than that.
I am also aware no other theory of origins is as well formed and developed as evolution. I would like to start a discussion on developing a theory of design.
As I see it, design concepts and evolution concepts are not separate issues. It's more a question of evolution without design or evolution with design.
Currently I have three proposed cornerstones for Design Theory:
1. The Big Bang shows the universe had a beginning.
2. The universe has been finely tuned.
3. The theory of abiogenesis has virtually no scientific support and is vulnerable to falsification.
For the time being, let's limit the discussion to these three.
I think we need to focus on just one. Beyond that should be new topics. So pick one.
Adminnemooseus

Please be familiar with the various topics and other links in the "Essential Links", found in the top of the page menu. Amongst other things, this is where to find where to report various forum problems.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by designtheorist, posted 09-15-2011 11:16 PM designtheorist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by designtheorist, posted 09-16-2011 8:47 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
designtheorist
Member (Idle past 3833 days)
Posts: 390
From: Irvine, CA, United States
Joined: 09-15-2011


Message 4 of 5 (633764)
09-16-2011 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Adminnemooseus
09-16-2011 12:55 AM


Re: Going for more focus
Okay. Let's start at the beginning with the Big Bang.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Adminnemooseus, posted 09-16-2011 12:55 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 5 of 5 (634464)
09-21-2011 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by designtheorist
09-16-2011 12:36 AM


The focus is to be "Theory of Design: The Big Bang"
Sorry about being slow to respond. I've been somewhat busy on real world things.
I suggest you take the material of part 1 and propose it as a new topic. You may wish to modify that content and perhaps further elaborate. Breaking it down into smaller paragraphs would also be a good thing.
I'll leave this topic open for now, but it's not going to get promoted. Start that new more focused topic instead.
Adminnemooseus

Please be familiar with the various topics and other links in the "Essential Links", found in the top of the page menu. Amongst other things, this is where to find where to report various forum problems.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by designtheorist, posted 09-16-2011 12:36 AM designtheorist has not replied

  
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