Contradictions between Genesis 1-2

You're jumping to conclusions.Most people in this thread are trying to point out that there are contradictions between the two accounts and that that's okay. Nobody is saying that the Bible is worthless because it contains contradictions.In fact, it's the literalists trying to cover up the contradictions who devalue the Bible. If you truly value the Bible, take it as it is. Don't idolize it as something perfect that it isn't.Don't start with the assumption that there must not be any contradictions.

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Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

No one knows anymore than we know the authors of many Biblical books or ANY of the various editors or members of the committees that determined the Canons. It is likely that most of the redaction of the Torah happened after the return from the exile and possibly either by or under the direction of Ezra. Sorry but that is nonsense. All that is needed is to point to the text itself. Well, what I provided were links to posts in this thread, so actually would be on topic for this thread.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Too bad they can't understand this.

quote:

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It is likely that most of the redaction of the Torah happened after the return from the exile and possibly either by or under the direction of Ezra.

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What evidence points to such a scenario? Does it mean, the book of Esther, written in babylon prior to Ezra, is invalidated, and have you examined the historicity of this document: it reads like the sunday telegraph, and displays contemporary details of its spacetime with hitherto unequalled authenticity for such a period. The book of esther describes the entire contemporary empire of the Persians, including its extent in India; the talmud was initiated at this time - which records a history predating Exra - altogether making the premise of Ezra writing the OT as a charade.Finally, what makes anyone imagine that in such an ancient time - well before Christianity, Rome and Greece - the people would tolerate a new edit of the OT and not rebel: consider what rebellions occured with the interaction between Jews and Greece, Rome and christianity! Consider also the ubsurdity of condoning a people being given a new scripture, and following it anew on the spot!The Ezra premise would also make all descriptions and stats in the OT, relating to 5000 years and 4000 years - eg, the generations and factors of Noah, Abraham, Ismael, ancient Egypt, and the 100s of nations listed, which predate Ezra, invalidated. IMHO, these factors which become invalidated, is the most pivotal proof the OT was not/ could not be written by Ezra or anyone else in his time.The Ezra story says, foremostly, that the israelites begat permission from a Persian King to re-build the temple of Solomon, destroyed by Babylon 70 years previously: your postulation would also negate Solomon or that a temple existed here. I believe there are coins and other relics which evidence both Solomon and the Temple. The other factor seen from the Ezra story is that the OT was read out again - because this was forbidden under babylon for 70 years. Here, there is good logic that the re-education of a previous tradition become inculcated - specially so if a temple and all its rituals was again to be erected.Indications are, this charade was invented by the ilk of scholars who once said King davd was a myth.

The only contradictions appear those depictions in the NT and Quran, and the contradictions between these two scriptures also; these emerged 2000 and 2500 years later and unilaterally. They may have been formed in genuine belief or mysterious compulsions, but they nonetheless contain all of the contradictions, and have caused all the chaos and conflicts seen today, specially that each contains unconditional negations of the original OT beliefs, and all three remain mutually exclusive.There are no contradictions between the Mosaic five books, and the rest of the OT writings upto the time of Micah, which marks the end of the OT writings.

The conflicts and wars come from bigots like you who support the ethnic cleansing of a people (Palestinians for example)simply because they are Muslim or "Arab" (ironic that Christians were 30% of all "Arabs" in Palestine before 1948).Please dont lump all Christians in with your twisted bigotry.Also, Muslims are demanded by Islamic law to let Christians and Jews live in peace.So Muslims arent at war with Christians.Just look at the many dozens of Muslim nations that have Christian minorities.Show me a single Christian nation (Lebanon doesnt count, lets look at European nations) that tolerated Muslims.Fascist bigots like you have stolen "Christianity" from Christ.The New Testament spoke against nationalism ("neither Jew nor Greek"). Well, now you include the Jewish faith as mutually exclusive from what? Peace?
Peace with Christians and Muslims (who are also "excluded" from peace in your twisted theology).Again, with bigots like you I suppose the comment is true.Jews were expelled like a punted football in Christian run (European) nations over a 1500 year period.Not to mention slaughtered.Please add a disclaimer to your posts when placing bigoted comments into a debate on ancient texts (not that you debate anything anyway, you just make a bunchof un-supported claims).It can go something like this.... That would be an honorable disclaimer to use when you insist on poisoning decent discussions (minus your crapola) with hateful and dishonest projections of political views.I can tell you that Jews , Muslims and Christ-following Christians are (in every way)100% my brothers & sisters so I find your comments disgusting to the sight.

Here is how Christian and Muslim Arabs as a group feel about Jews. This is the historically typical view as represented by the Arabs of Syria, Lebanon , Palestine, and Jordan.Christians were about 25% and Muslims 75%. Had the immigration of Jews been peaceful then Muslims would only be about 55% of the total population from this entire region.And divided between many very different sub-groups within "Islam"- including two large sects which Sunni Muslims dont even consider to be Islamic (one "muslim" minority represents 12% of the Syrian Arab Reublic , runs the government, and infact celebrates Christmas and Easter as a matter of faith!)Sunni Mulims wouldnt be 40% of the entire region of Syria-Palestine!I dont dis-like Muslims, but that sure would have been nice.In the anti-Christian world of bigots like IamJoseph , only hatred and chaos reign supreme.Muslims arent haters but the tense atmosphere (caused by bigots and world-superpowers populated by bigots) has caused poverty and war which leads to high birth-rates among some, and emigration combined with low-birth rates among minorities.Palestinian Christians were only killed by European invaders (whether the West-Roman Empire, East-Roman Empire, Crusades, Zionism, etc.) NOT MUSLIMS.Yet they were still 28% of Palestine in 1948.Now they will never be more than a few percent.The anti-Christian spirit of people like IamJoseph is the #1 reason.And I wont allow his ilk to deflect blame.

I see that jews and israel is being your target of genocide, while hiding behind a false Sufferin' Pals placebo. The only racism we find in the world today is by Islamic states: stop erecting mosques in non-muslim countries - untill you become brave enough to allow christians and jews to also erect their churches and temples in all Islamic states. Its called RECIPROCITY.Instead of chanting the falsehoods of Muslim Palestinians, get the so-called good muslim majority to form an army an capture your mass murderers: why no Fatwah for Osama? Will muslims not be shamed if Bin Laden is captured by non-muslims, as with Sadaam?Terrorists are not Freedom Fighters - freedom fighters start at home, and will never allow all 57 islamic states to be ruled by dictatorial regimes spreading poison within Muslim youth in closed session madarasas. Get some sunlight - it has a cleansing effect.

Do you even know what redaction means?Do you even know what books make up the Torah?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Actually, Jews (I shouldnt make too broad of comments, it can be complicated to define a "Jew") are one of the few good things the United States has going for it.Every Jew I know seems to be quite smart, and frankly not dumb enough to swallow fascist propaganda 100% like you, and other red-necks, do so well. (I have nothing against red-necks either)As I said, Jews suffered more than anybody at the hands of "Christian" bigots like yourself.People like YOU, IamJoseph , were told by your church leaders to hate Jews all throughout history in western lands.The same "Christian" leaders now tell the sheep to hate Arabs, Muslims and Palestinians as the new "bad guy" inplace of the "evil guys" of yesterday-Jews.Tell me Joseph.Where in the Bible are Arabs described as an "end-times" enemy of Jews? (as if these racial definitions could apply to such inter-mixed peoples of today, but I'll accept your dispensationalist fantasies for a second just for thought)Where does the New Testament talk about Palestine/Israel and land rights?O and I challenge you to find any anti-Jewish remark from THIS poster.I find war and racism to be simply horrible.It leads to a lot of bright people (like JEWS!) being killed and its such a loss to humanity.With worthless morans like yourself overpopulating this world, it really becomes clear how sa the situation actually is when fascism leads to bigoted killing and loss of precious ancient peoples.HOWEVERYour theology demands killing and ethnic wars as a means of "fulfilling Gods plan".Its why you can be reasoned with. Actually, I find people like you to be the most racist by far.I swear to god thats the truth.As I see it.And I am a quite critical-thinker IHO. Your attacks on Muslims never cease, however lets look at this "chanting" accusation of yours.LOOK AT MY POSTSLOOK AT YOUR POSTS.Who actually chants claims without published academic works for documentation?Who then spends a great deal of time documenting the literature in an effort to introduce critical and high-quality data into the chaotic discussions that the web brings?We will see who is the un-critical "chanter" when we add up the number of examples under our screen-names.Infact, the biggest problem with you is that you never even admit you are wrong about something even when the plain data is staring you right in the face.EXAMPLE: The 2 top Jewish scholars who plainly said that Palestine was used for ALL of Israel over 500 years before you said it was.Plus they shot down about 4 other "chanted" claims of yours in their encyclopedia article (ie they shot down the chanted crap that "Palestine" was a Roman slander of Jews)

Since I never said anything at all bad about the Jewish people (thank God for them), then can some action be taken if IamJoseph cant prove that I made Jews a target of genocide?I dont even disagree with Jews in Palestine either.Infact, I think they should live in the region.I am against a seperate Palestinian state.I think all Jews and Palestinians should have a right to return to the land Israel/Palestine.I also dont entirely blame Jews for the mess that Israel/Palestine has become since 1948. (its more the modern nation-state concept that caused so many problems and scheming gentile western-elites and the borders they drew up in the entire region which served several corrupt interests).

Since the whole subject is unrelated to the topic can I ask both of you to take it somewhere else?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Am I? We'll see. Maybe most are, but some are not. Anyway, I challenge that line of thinking. If the Bible is the Word of God, and God is infallible, than any contradiction or error would make it worthless. What is the point in worshipping someone who makes mistakes. Might as well take care of yourself. And I believe that is what some on here want. If they can prove the Bible has errors or contradictions then they might as well live their lives like they want. And not be held accountable for it. How can you devalue the Bible by standing up for it? As stated earlier, either the Bible is the Word of God or it is not. By explaning away so called contradictions, I am not covering them up. You are the one who has to prove a contradition not me. As for taking it for what it is, I do. It is the Word of an infallible God. Since it comes from an infallible God, then it is perfect. I cherish it, but I don't idolize it. Everybody starts with assumptions. Assumptions based on what their world view is. As stated, I believe the Bible is the Word of an infallible God, therefore I assume it has no errors. You, on the other hand, do not believe that it is, therefore you assume it must have errors in it. Both of us start out with assumptions.

Well, that may or may not be true, but there do certainly appear to be errors. Leviticus 11 talks about insects creeping on all fours. For very obvious reasons, insects do not creep on all fours. That book, if I recall correctly, also describes bats as birds. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

It doesn't matter what you believe. Never mind what other people's motives are. Just discuss the topic honestly. Who made that rule? The OP lays out some contradictions and anybody who wants to try to refute them is allowed to do so. There is no onus on anybody to "prove" them to your satisfaction. That's not the topic. We're only looking at the words. It doesn't much matter who wrote them. So you admit that your conclusion is based on assumption and not on fact. I don't have a "world view". You don't know what I believe. Don't make foolish assumptions about me.I most certainly do not assume that there are errors in the Bible. But I'm willing to take an honest look at the possibility. Are you?If you're just going to rant on and on about how there can't possibly be any errors in the Bible, you have nothing to contribute to this thread.

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Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.