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Author Topic:   Is belief in God or the Bible necessary to believe in a massive flood.
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4640 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 106 of 110 (509717)
05-24-2009 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Coyote
05-22-2009 12:09 PM


Re: To return to the topic... Or try to.
Ok I left this post a bit recently but maybe it is time to bring it back on topic.
About that thing about mtDNA, you have to remember that the mtDNA would not have come from Noah's wife, but from his sons wives. This mixes things up a little bit more. As well, do you calculate those dates with carbon-dating or with the mutation rates in mtDNA ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Coyote, posted 05-22-2009 12:09 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Coyote, posted 05-24-2009 11:03 AM slevesque has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 107 of 110 (509745)
05-24-2009 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by slevesque
05-24-2009 3:57 AM


Re: To return to the topic... Or try to.
About that thing about mtDNA, you have to remember that the mtDNA would not have come from Noah's wife, but from his sons wives. This mixes things up a little bit more.
Makes no difference. You still don't get one of the founding North American haplogroups. They had formed many thousand years earlier and half a world away.
And this still wouldn't explain away the continuity of North American or other haplotypes from before to after the purported date of the purported flood.
As well, do you calculate those dates with carbon-dating or with the mutation rates in mtDNA ?
The ones from North America are dated using radiocarbon dating. But please don't start with all of the standard creationist objections to radiocarbon dating. I've heard them all and they range from wishful thinking, pure nonsense, and outright self-delusion to bald-faced lies. And they belong in another thread.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by slevesque, posted 05-24-2009 3:57 AM slevesque has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 108 of 110 (509751)
05-24-2009 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by slevesque
05-24-2009 3:51 AM


Re: Fruchtenbaum
quote:
I said he was one of the greatest scholars alive. Obviously, it is a very subjective thing. How do you compare scholars ? I surely don't know. It was my personnal opinion on him. You may disagree.
I do wholeheartedly. The issue is you reference him as a renowned expert. You may think he is, but there is nothing academically that shows he is. Just because someone talks about and writes about a subject does not make them experts. For example, Ben Stein and evolution. The social sciences, like the physical sciences, have peer reviewed journals. Also, there are many reputable publishing houses. Can you show any evidence he has been published in journals or had any book published other by his own ministry?
quote:
Besides, I didn't say he was an expert on jewish transcription method. I said ''he must know a thing or two'' if I recall correctly.
This is disingenuous at best. Your original statement.
slevesque writes:
May I ask how do you know it isn't true ? My fahter went to Israel with Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, who is one of the greatest scholar alive today. I think he knows a thing or two about jewish history and their transcription methods ...
Come on. Who are you trying to fool? You present him as an expert then when questioned about it you backpedal and say you meant something else.
As Percy has stated before, maybe you should stick with one thread at a time. Your arguments are continually destroyed and then you change and backpedal. All I want is an honest discussion, but when you paint someone like Fruchtenbaum, who very few people seem to have heard of, as an expert, I am going to demand evidence showing he is an expert.
quote:
Nonetheless I would think he knows just about everything about jewish history, including their transcription method. Even though he may not have any official study on this. He came three times where I live, and all he does is read,read,read and translate,translate,translate. He must sleep like 2 hours a day.
Means nothing. What you think and believe has no bearing on this. Show evidence he is an expert .

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by slevesque, posted 05-24-2009 3:51 AM slevesque has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 109 of 110 (510727)
06-03-2009 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Peg
05-22-2009 8:58 AM


the question ppl have to ask themselves is would a book of myth and legend contain so many real places and people and dates and times
How many places visited during the Exodus have been shown to be real?
Name a real person from any of the first five books of the Old Testament, and provide evidence that they were real.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Peg, posted 05-22-2009 8:58 AM Peg has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Adminnemooseus, posted 06-03-2009 4:44 AM Brian has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 110 of 110 (510731)
06-03-2009 4:44 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Brian
06-03-2009 3:20 AM


Off-topic - This topic getting closed for at least a while
Brian's message and like messages upthread are off-topic. I SUGGEST that such discussion go to the Mythology with real places & people topic.
I'm going to temporarily close this topic, to insure this topic diversion ceases. When someone is ready to continue the topic in an on-topic manner, post a reopen request at the "Thread Reopen Requests" topic, link below in the "signature". Please supply a link back to this topic if you make such a request.
Adminnemooseus

New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Report a problem etc. type topics:
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Admin writes:
It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.
There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.
Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source

This message is a reply to:
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