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Author Topic:   Ebola
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1 of 111 (738625)
10-13-2014 9:44 AM


Given the struggles in dealing with this Ebola outbreak, I wonder if we've checked into the possibility that the disease might have changed. Third world health care assisted by organizations like Doctors Without Borders has successfully dealt with outbreaks in the past, but now Ebola seems to breaking through health measures in a number of different countries, including first world countries like the US and Spain.
--Percy

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 2 of 111 (738626)
10-13-2014 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
10-13-2014 9:44 AM


I too suspect it is spread easier than what we have been led to believe, but there seems to be a bit of stupidity going on in regards to how health care workers are dealing with it.
The hospital in Dallas let patient zero go home after reporting being in west Africa and having a high fever.
Huge mistake.
CDC should mandate these cases be treated in a facility prepared to treat this disease. Negative pressure rooms, isolation etc.. and not trust that hospitals have the adequate training to keep this from spreading.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 3 of 111 (738627)
10-13-2014 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
10-13-2014 9:44 AM


Well, we've sequenced the strain (i.e. here and here).
There are slight differences in the strain but nothing that remarkable - it's about 97% identical. The transfers in the first world are probably best accounted for by sloppy practice rather than changes in the virus.
Edited by Mr Jack, : No reason given.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 4 of 111 (738628)
10-13-2014 10:12 AM


Maybe US health care workers just need experience and practice.
I bet the last time the US had to deal with a major epidemic was long before many of these health care workers were born.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 5 of 111 (738629)
10-13-2014 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
10-13-2014 9:44 AM


The word is that the Spanish and Americans have been sloppy - very sloppy.
Really interestingly, Nigeria has dealt brilliantly with it - not something you'd expect. But it's because Nigeria is the last place where polio exists and there's been an international effort to wipe it out there. As a result, they have the equipment, and more importantly, the procedures to deal with it and are very accustomed to the problems.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 111 (738633)
10-13-2014 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
10-13-2014 9:44 AM


but now Ebola seems to breaking through health measures in a number of different countries, including first world countries like the US and Spain.
I haven't heard anything about the procedures used at Texas Presbyterian that inspires even the tiniest confidence. On the other hand, nobody got infected at Emory in Atlanta or during transport during the handling of two separate cases.
I'm more than willing to accept the conclusion that Atlantans are more competent than Texans. For now I think it is reasonable to suspect a breach in security measures.
http://www.weather.com/...urse-tests-positive-ebola-20141012
quote:
Dr. Tom Frieden, head of the CDC, said the diagnosis showed that there was a breach of safety protocol and that all of the health care workers who treated Duncan are now thought to have been exposed.
Several other hospitals have treated Ebola patients without workers contracting the disease, including Emory Hospital in Atlanta, Forbes reports.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 111 (738636)
10-13-2014 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by 1.61803
10-13-2014 10:05 AM


I too suspect it is spread easier than what we have been led to believe
Do you have any particular suspicion about how the virus might be transmitted? In my mind the variables would be 1) during which phases the virus could be transmitted? 2) can it be transmitted without direct contact from a sick person?
There is no need to suspect anything with respect to item 1 because we know that the nurse treated a sick person.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by 1.61803, posted 10-13-2014 10:05 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by 1.61803, posted 10-13-2014 1:21 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 8 of 111 (738638)
10-13-2014 12:39 PM


I just find it funny that the anti-Obama crowd have managed to politicize ebola. Just a few days ago, on various forums I saw conservatives saying Obama is the worst president ever for not banning flights from Africa to enter the US. And then yesterday those same people started saying ebola is overly-hyped by Obama administration to get more money.
I bet just a few more days and Obama was the one that created ebola in the first place.

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 111 (738640)
10-13-2014 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Taz
10-13-2014 12:39 PM


I bet just a few more days and Obama was the one that created ebola in the first place.
Nah, he's not white enough.
As Louis Farrakhan points out:
White people genetically engineered Ebola to be able to specifically target the black race in particular.
quote:
Means and methods of depopulation
What is the method that they are going to use to depopulate?
...
Another method is disease infection through bio-weapons such as Ebola and AIDS, which are race targeting weapons. There is a weapon that can be put in a room where there are Black and White people, and it will kill only the Black and spare the White, because it is a genotype weapon that is designed for your genes, for your race, for your kind.
On a lighter note, here's my take on the Ebola scare:
But Percy does raise and interesting question in the OP, and I haven't begun to investigate it yet.

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 10 of 111 (738643)
10-13-2014 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by NoNukes
10-13-2014 12:25 PM


ignorance and complacency=infection
NoNukes writes:
Do you have any particular suspicion about how the virus might be transmitted?
I believe infected body fluids as has been established, however it seems this virus may be very tenacious requiring only the most miniscule and brief direct contact to be successfully transmitted. Just speculation.
Working in a full isolation room gets tedious after awhile and people become complacent. No matter how much PPE is worn it is useless in the face of bad technique. It is a training issue in regards to Dallas I believe. Ignorance and complacency. I am sure heads are rolling as we speak.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 111 (738645)
10-13-2014 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by 1.61803
10-13-2014 1:21 PM


Re: ignorance and complacency=infection
I believe infected body fluids as has been established, however it seems this virus may be very tenacious requiring only the most miniscule and brief direct contact to be successfully transmitted. Just speculation.
I'm not sure we've been told anything different than what you describe.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by 1.61803, posted 10-13-2014 1:21 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 12 of 111 (738666)
10-13-2014 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
10-13-2014 9:44 AM


Health Measures?
Ebola seems to breaking through health measures in a number of different countries, including first world countries like the US and Spain.
What 'health measures'? People are still moving in and out of infected countries.

Love your enemies!

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 13 of 111 (738668)
10-13-2014 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
10-13-2014 9:44 AM


..., but now Ebola seems to breaking through health measures in a number of different countries, including first world countries like the US and Spain.
I'm really not seeing that. Quite a few other people were potentially exposed, before Duncan was hospitalized. But thus far we are not hearing of any symptoms. If the virus had somehow learned to break out, I would expect some of those to be showing symptoms by now.
To me, it looks more likely that one or more of the hospital staff were careless at some time.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 14 of 111 (738677)
10-14-2014 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by nwr
10-13-2014 10:58 PM


One ambulance attendant that transported him is in for observation but no diagnosis at this time.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(3)
Message 15 of 111 (738721)
10-14-2014 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Taz
10-13-2014 12:39 PM


I bet just a few more days and Obama was the one that created ebola in the first place.
In a few more weeks, Obama will have created Ebola to scare Americans away from Kenya where his official birth certificate is kept.

This message is a reply to:
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