Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,809 Year: 3,066/9,624 Month: 911/1,588 Week: 94/223 Day: 5/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Heaven and sin
compmage
Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 1 of 28 (35532)
03-28-2003 2:05 AM


Is it possable for a person who has died and gone to heaven to sin? If not, why not?
------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 03-28-2003 3:24 PM compmage has replied
 Message 4 by Jesuslover153, posted 03-29-2003 4:19 PM compmage has replied
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 11-15-2011 4:18 AM compmage has not replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 28 (35641)
03-28-2003 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by compmage
03-28-2003 2:05 AM


I don't know for sure but I don't think that there will be sin in heaven. For one because we will no longer be tempted and lied to by the enemy. Also because we will not any longer war with our own flesh, as we will be resurrected with new bodies that are not slave to sin, or limited to the love of this world.
I don't think that sin won't exist because it is impossible, rather that it won't exist because we will choose not to.
This is pure speculation, as I have not provided any scripture to support this. I figure I'll know when I get there. I have a hard enough time with the day to day battle with sin, I won't worry about whether or not the battle continues in heaven till I get there.
------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by compmage, posted 03-28-2003 2:05 AM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by compmage, posted 03-29-2003 2:18 AM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 3 of 28 (35673)
03-29-2003 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by funkmasterfreaky
03-28-2003 3:24 PM


Assuming your speculations is correct, then God can create a place where sin does not exist.
I wonder why he didn't do that from the start?
------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 03-28-2003 3:24 PM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
Jesuslover153
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 28 (35724)
03-29-2003 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by compmage
03-28-2003 2:05 AM


Two things come to mind...
The only unforgivable sin is the blasphemy agains the Holy Spirit, which is unforgivable in this life and in the life to come... I look at this in one of two ways, either the life to come means every moment that is futur to now or it is for after we die or are taken to heaven, which if it is the latter than we could sin in heaven...
Second thing is that Jesus said to put no thought towards heaven or hell, there is enough today to concern ourselves with. Where is that quote?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by compmage, posted 03-28-2003 2:05 AM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by compmage, posted 03-30-2003 1:44 PM Jesuslover153 has replied
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 04-04-2012 6:41 PM Jesuslover153 has not replied

  
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 28 (35735)
03-29-2003 5:01 PM


how about this
If you have the ability to do something good and do not do it, is that a sin?
if you have the ability to do the 'best thing' or 'most good thing' [assuming that there is always one best thing] is it sinful not to do it?
if so, then if we are without sin, won't we always do the 'best thing' hence becoming mindless 'do best thing' drones? Will we still have free will?

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 6 of 28 (35820)
03-30-2003 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Jesuslover153
03-29-2003 4:19 PM


Jessuslover153 writes:
which if it is the latter than we could sin in heaven...
Will God punish us if we sin once in heaven?
------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Jesuslover153, posted 03-29-2003 4:19 PM Jesuslover153 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Jesuslover153, posted 03-30-2003 3:07 PM compmage has replied

  
Jesuslover153
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 28 (35829)
03-30-2003 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by compmage
03-30-2003 1:44 PM


Is this something that you worry about?
If it something that is important than I pray to God to reveal it to us through his word.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by compmage, posted 03-30-2003 1:44 PM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by compmage, posted 03-30-2003 3:22 PM Jesuslover153 has replied

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 8 of 28 (35835)
03-30-2003 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Jesuslover153
03-30-2003 3:07 PM


Jesuslover153 writes:
Is this something that you worry about?
No. I have seen no evidence that suggest that God or heaven exist. From my point of view it would be like worrying about Santa thinking I have been a bad boy and therefore not bringing me a present.
The point of this is simply this:
1) If we can't sin in heaven then obviously (other arguments aside) God is capable of making it impossible for us to commit sin, why then allow sin and the suffering it sometimes causes on earth?
2) If we can sin in heaven and...
a) God does not punish us for it, how come it is such an abomination when it is part of paradise?
b) God does punish us for it, what then is the difference between heaven and earth?
------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Jesuslover153, posted 03-30-2003 3:07 PM Jesuslover153 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Jesuslover153, posted 03-30-2003 3:29 PM compmage has replied

  
Jesuslover153
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 28 (35839)
03-30-2003 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by compmage
03-30-2003 3:22 PM


I have to recount the words of Jesus to you than... if you do not believen the earthly things I have told you than how is it that you will believen heavenly things?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by compmage, posted 03-30-2003 3:22 PM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by compmage, posted 03-30-2003 3:46 PM Jesuslover153 has not replied

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 10 of 28 (35845)
03-30-2003 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Jesuslover153
03-30-2003 3:29 PM


Jesuslover153 writes:
I have to recount the words of Jesus to you than... if you do not believen the earthly things I have told you than how is it that you will believen heavenly things?
I won't, not on your say so, however I don't have to believe in order to tell if the idea of the Christian God is logically consistant, which is what I am trying to determine.
If you could address the scenarios I gave in my previous post or point out any I might have missed it would help me do that.
Edited to fix spelling.
------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
[This message has been edited by compmage, 03-30-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Jesuslover153, posted 03-30-2003 3:29 PM Jesuslover153 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 11 of 28 (640989)
11-15-2011 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by compmage
03-28-2003 2:05 AM


Heaven and Sin
quote:
Is it possable for a person who has died and gone to heaven to sin? If not, why not?
Interesting rhetorical question! Short answer: We don't know. But lets speculate!
Funk writes:
I don't know for sure but I don't think that there will be sin in heaven. For one because we will no longer be tempted and lied to by the enemy.
Would we have freewill in Heaven or would we essentially all think alike and agree on everything?
Gzus writes:
If you have the ability to do something good and do not do it, is that a sin?
if you have the ability to do the 'best thing' or 'most good thing' [assuming that there is always one best thing] is it sinful not to do it?
if so, then if we are without sin, won't we always do the 'best thing' hence becoming mindless 'do best thing' drones? Will we still have free will?
Like I said....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by compmage, posted 03-28-2003 2:05 AM compmage has not replied

  
zhenghan1019 
Suspended Junior Member (Idle past 4503 days)
Posts: 5
From: , Öйú
Joined: 11-25-2011


Message 12 of 28 (642122)
11-25-2011 9:08 PM


It is hard to say about this!
-----------------------------------------
USA jerseys
Edited by AdminModulous, : spam

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 13 of 28 (658437)
04-04-2012 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Jesuslover153
03-29-2003 4:19 PM


Hi Jesuslover
You said
"The only unforgivable sin is the blasphemy agains the Holy Spirit, which is unforgivable in this life and in the life to come... "
If God is one, monotheism indicates that he is, then how, when God splits into three heads, one head will have more of whatever to make the sin harsher for one than the other 2?
Are they not equal?
Further, apparently all sins be they a lie or a murder are all punished the same way.
What is so special about the holt spirit?
Why does it seem to have more power or whatever than the father or even Jesus who we now have to go through?
I am the way etc.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Jesuslover153, posted 03-29-2003 4:19 PM Jesuslover153 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Panda, posted 04-04-2012 6:49 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 15 by 1.61803, posted 04-05-2012 10:59 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 14 of 28 (658438)
04-04-2012 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Greatest I am
04-04-2012 6:41 PM


FYI: The post you are replying to is from 9 years ago.
It also looks like the poster has not been around for almost as long.
Maybe someone else will discuss it with you instead.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 04-04-2012 6:41 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 15 of 28 (658478)
04-05-2012 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Greatest I am
04-04-2012 6:41 PM


Blasphemy against the holy ghost is unforgivable according the the holy bible.
Matthew 12:31-32 --- "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
Mark 3:28-29 --- "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."
Luke 12:10 --- "And everyone who will speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him." See also: Luke 11:14f.
Are they not equal?
The concept of the Trinity is that they are one with the Father same substance. The Holy Roman church during the council of
Nicaea in 325 AD concluded after much debate that the Church must adopt a uniform creed. It became known as the Nicean Creed and to this day is the cornerstone of Catholicism.
Further, apparently all sins be they a lie or a murder are all punished the same way.
According to the Catholic Catechism sin is divided into venial and mortal sin.
A mortal sin:
1. It must be of a grave matter;
2. It must be committed with full knowledge that it is a mortal sin;
3. It must be committed with full consent. [Full consent means to do it "voluntarily."] (C.C.C. # 1857)
What is so special about the holt spirit?
Why does it seem to have more power or whatever than the father or even Jesus who we now have to go through?
According to the dogma of theTrinity.
The Holy Ghost is a Person really distinct as such from the Father and the Son;
He is God and consubstantial with the Father and the Son.
why does it seem to have more power or whatever than the father or even Jesus who we now have to go through?
I am the way etc.
John 14:6, Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
This stance was somewhat reversed by the Catholic church during Vatican II when the Pope came out and extended salvation and grace to all people. It has been and still is a schism in the faith.
This is all simply a matter of belief as taught by the Catholic church, your mileage may vary
Edited by 1.61803, : removed redundant .

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 04-04-2012 6:41 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Greatest I am, posted 04-20-2012 2:17 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024