Genesis: is it to be taken literally?

AdminSylus, post 67, born2preach is just as offensive. No need for these types of comments on forum, at least if administration wants to keep it dignified.thank you, rickroserickrose

And Jesus was as gullible as any other Jew in first century Palestine. Jesus was also silly enough to believe that Moses wrote the Torah and that Jonah was in a whale for three days. What Jesus believed to be true and what actually is true, is not always the same thing.Brian.

The same can be said for what is true and what you believe to be true. As an example, you present yourself with a cross and make derogatory statements toward those claiming to be Christians. Your mockery is easily understood. Nevertheless, it's not offensive because Jesus died on a stake, not a cross. You are as knowledgeable as those you mock.No further debate on the subject. Sharpen your pencil elsewhere.

Jesus was quoting the Gen account when he said :"Did YOU not read that he who created them from [the] beginning made them male and female."This message has been edited by Rick Rose, 05-13-2004 02:53 PM

And what does that have to do with whether Genesis should be read literally or figuratively?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Reply to point you made in message 4 of this thread.

I'm old and slow witted. I still do not understand what point you are trying to make. Sorry. Mea Culpa.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Simply this: If one believes the words of Jesus, and Jesus quotes the Gen account authoritatively to teach that divorce should not be frivolous, then one would suppose Jesus believed that Gen was literal.3 And Pharisees came up to him, intent on tempting him and saying: "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife on every sort of ground?" 4 In reply he said: "Did YOU not read that he who created them from [the] beginning made them male and female 5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh'?Hardly a citation Jesus would make If he thoutht the account was allagorical. And he would have to suppose that his audience credited it hostorically.rickrose

No, don't see it that way at all. Jesus consistantly uses parable as a way of teaching. The truth or actuality of the parable has nothing to do with the point being taught.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Rick raised the matter of standards and dignity. Herewith a brief personal comment. We have a number of admins, and they don't all work the same way. But by and large, the super-admin (percy) tries for a comparatively relaxed approach. The two posts you complain about were crude, but not directed against identifiable other posters. Rocket has since been banned for pushing the lines once too often.Being crass is, well, crass; but not formally in violation of guidelines. If people want to push the envelope they will not doubt find that moderators have wide powers of interpretation, but generally we don't enforce dignity.Cheers -- AdminSylas

Rick Rose.
Your observations are correct.Brians Mother would say about me He’s a very naughty boy It is not usually advisable within my religion to debate with,what many would say Under the threat of possibly debating with apostates. But so many I know personally are surface believers,I have deepened my search for God.After all,you know that we need to take in accurate knowledge of Gods ways,as requested in the scriptures.You understand the true interpretation of the scriptural word.. stake (Greek stauros,xylon) e.t.c. as opposed to the perversion of the translation to a cross.You also quote Matthew from the NWT bible.One where Jehovahs name remains in the scriptures.
Same faith,or do you just agree with certain points?A little late,but the term El,Elohah and Elohim have various connotations and the meanings have to be realised within the context of the scripture.
Anything that is worshiped can be termed a god, inasmuch as the worshiper attributes to it might greater than his own and venerates it. A person can even let his belly be a god. (Ro 16:18; Php 3:18, 19) The Bible makes mention of many gods (Ps 86:8; 1Co 8:5, 6), False idolised gods are valueless gods.Ps 96:5;.Among the Hebrew words that are translated God is El, probably meaning Mighty One; Strong One. (Ge 14:18) It is used with reference to Jehovah (Gods name), to other gods, and to men. El is used prolifically in proper names, such as Elisha (meaning God Is Salvation) and Michael (Who Is Like God?). In some places El appears with the definite article (haEl, literally, the God) with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.Ge 46:3; 2Sa 22:31; . Concerning the use of haElohim, F. Zorell says: In the Holy Scriptures especially the one true God, Jehovah, is designated by this word; . . . ‘Jehovah is the [one true] God’ De 4:35; 4:39; Jos 22:34; 2Sa 7:28; 1Ki 8:60 etc.Lexicon Hebraicum Veteris Testamenti, Rome, 1984, p. 54;At Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is prophetically called El Gibbohr, Mighty God (not El Shaddai [God Almighty], which is applied to Jehovah at Genesis 17:1).
The plural form, elim, is used when referring to other gods: Ex 15:11. It is also used as the plural of majesty and excellence, as in Psalm 89:6: Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God [bibeneh Elim]? That the plural form is used to denote a single individual here and in a number of other places is supported by the translation of Elim by the singular form Theos in the Greek Septuagint; likewise by Deus in the Latin Vulgate.Elohim is the plural of elohah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods (Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. Elohim is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.When applying the named God Jehovah Elohim is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. (Ge 1:1) Regarding this, Aaron Ember wrote: That the language of the Old Testament has entirely given up the idea of plurality in . .Elohim (as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. . . . [Elohim] must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God.The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208.The title Elohim draws attention to the true God Jehovah’s strength as the Creator. It appears 35 times by itself in the account of creation, and every time the verb describing what he said and did is in the singular number. (Ge 1:1—2:4) Within God is his substance of infinite power.
At Psalm 8:5, the godlike ones,angels are also referred to as elohim, as is confirmed by Paul’s quotation of the passage at Hebrews 2:6-8. They are called beneh haElohim, sons of God (KJ); sons of the true God (NW), at Genesis 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1. Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, by Koehler and Baumgartner (1958), page 134, says: (individual) divine beings, gods. And page 51 says: the (single) gods, and it cites Genesis 6:2; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Hence, at Psalm 8:5 elohim is rendered angels (LXX); godlike ones (NW).The word elohim is also used when referring to false idol gods. Sometimes this plural form means simply gods. (Ex 12:12; 20:23) At other times it is the plural of excellence and only one god (or goddess) is referred to. However, these gods were clearly not trinities.1Sa 5:7b (Dagon); 1Ki 11:5 (goddess Ashtoreth);At Psalm 82:1, 6, elohim is used of men, human judges in Israel. Jesus quoted from this Psalm at John 10:34, 35. They were gods in their capacity as representatives of and spokesmen for Jehovah. Similarly Moses was told that he was to serve as God to Aaron and to Pharaoh.Ex 4:16, ftn; 7: (Ge 5:22)
[Reference book: Insight on the scriptures.Modified.]There is nothing mythical about Genesis.When you take out the equation of God,then it will seem mythical and it would be impossible to apply the miracles and the creative procedure.With God involved we can approach the subjects differently.
The bible was deliberately written through Gods inspiration as to be almost unbelieveable.It wasn’t put across to us so that only the intelligent can work it out and attain salvation.If this was so the foolish would not stand a chance.Salvation is open to all,by simply scratching away the surface and taking in the knowledge of God.

HI, Of course, would anyone seriously dispute this? I don't present myself with a cross, and where have I made derogatory statements? I never claimed that Jesus died on anything. Now that would be difficult. Thank God for that.Brian.

Hi, I cannot believe that it was banned for so long here in Scotland. But it is a very funny film, and totally accurate as well Brian.

Perhaps your avatar?

Ah, must be.He must think that I am under the impression that 'The Life of Brian' is an attempt to accurately portray Jesus life. While it is slightly more believable than the Gospels, I selected the avatar mainly for the coincidence of my Christian name and that of the leading character.Brian.