How do we know when the Gospels were written?

You're right, Coragyps. Judith would be a great chick slasher flick.Another groundbreaking film Schrafinator wouldn't want to miss is Deborah the Prophetess. The title character is a leader of Israel in its pre-monarchy days. Barak commands the Israelite army. The villain d'jour is Sisera, commander of the Canaanite army.The story relates how Sisera escapes Barak's soldiers at one point, only to encounter a particularly fatale femme:

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Now Sisera had fled away on foot to the tent of Jael wife of Heber the Kenite; for there was peace between King Jabin of Hazor and the clan of Heber the Kenite. Jael came out to meet Sisera, and said to him, ”Turn aside, my lord, turn aside to me; have no fear.’ So he turned aside to her into the tent, and she covered him with a rug. Then he said to her, ”Please give me a little water to drink; for I am thirsty.’ So she opened a skin of milk and gave him a drink and covered him. He said to her, ”Stand at the entrance of the tent, and if anybody comes and asks you, “Is anyone here?” say, “No.” ’

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But Jael wife of Heber took a tent-peg, and took a hammer in her hand, and went softly to him and drove the peg into his temple, until it went down into the ground”he was lying fast asleep from weariness”and he died. Then, as Barak came in pursuit of Sisera, Jael went out to meet him, and said to him, ”Come, and I will show you the man whom you are seeking.’ So he went into her tent; and there was Sisera lying dead, with the tent-peg in his temple.

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Judges 4.17-22
NRSV

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Don't miss the ecstatic Song of Deborah in chapter 5 in which the prophetess praises Jael above 'all tent-dwelling women.'In the film, of course, the song would be scored for choir and full orchestra by John Williams using themes derived from 'If I Had a Hammer.'Cast (in order of appearance)

Deborah: Judi Dench
Barak: Viggo Mortensen
Advisor: Ian Holm (you have to have Ian Holm)
Sisera: Hugo Weaving
Jael: Christina Ricci

__Edited by Archer Opterix, : usual cutting room stuff.Edited by Archer Opterix, : CGI.

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

Jesus Powell wrote:

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What do you base this claim off of? It looks like nonsense to me.

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Now Jesus, this list is objectively testable, much of it by simply opening a Bible. Simply take your Protestant Bible and check for yourself - does it have 1 Maccabees? Check a Catholic or Orthodox Bible. For the others, you can read the writings of Irenaeus, Clement, etc, as well as I can. Plus, Christians the world over, both Protestant and Catholic, agree with this data. You don’t have to take my word for it, you can check Bibles and historical documents (many available online at NEW ADVENT: Home) yourself. Some Bibles are available at BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages..Calling it “nonsense” is like saying that it’s “nonsense” that dictionaries have words in them - it only makes you look silly, and based on your name, doesn’t help the reputation of Christians overall.P. S. Thanks Anastasia- Equinox
P. P. S. Hmmmm.... the name "Jesusfighter" makes me think of some dude going around, looking for Jesuses to beat up, or maybe attacking pictures of Jesus, since those are more common than Jesus......Edited by Equinox, : added Jesusattacker musings

Vacate wrote:

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Its sad really when you realize how limited your knowledge of a subject really is. ....
Equinox, Nasr Allah, and Archer Opterix have shown that I know virtually zero about the progression of the bible.

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Aww..... Don't be too hard on yourself. You already know more than most people, maybe even most Christians. Take it easy and take your time.

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I thank all of you for possibly ruining months of my time trying to understand how things came about. Too many topics to cover and not enough days in the week.

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Again, take your time. There is no rush, no final exam next week, or such. An easy and simple start is to get the tape/CD lectures I linked to on post #103 - then you can listen when you drive, and no extra time is needed from your life. Compare various, disagreeing sources (not just what we mention). Take time to look carefully at exactly what each source you read is saying - especially watch for grand generalizations without testable, specific points. For instance, you may read:

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"The Bible is the single most influential book in history, and we know it better than most ancient documents. Historians marvel at how accuratly it has been preserved, and how really reliable it is."

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So what does that really say? Which historians? Just any? A few? What can you test against other information? Anything from that? How reliable is "really reliable"? How well do we know most ancient documents? Does being taller than a midget make you tall? What is meant by "marvel at", etc.Compare points, for instance, one source may read "the differences between our manuscripts are mostly irrelevant, since they are almost all spelling or other small errors", and another may say "there are thousands of differences, leading to many verses being in question".Those seem to suggest different things, but both are completely true. There are actually many thousands of differences and changes, so if even a few percent of them are not spelling errors, that's still hundreds of errors.Oh, and Nicea wasn't just about picking books for the Bible - that mostly wasn't done at Nicea, but rather was mostly done by the whole Orthodox church as a whole, over centuries. A lot of Nicea was about interpreting verses, as you heard. In fact, a final NT book list wasn't proposed until 367, long after Nicea.Overall, I wish you the best, enjoy the trip.
Edited by Equinox, : added point comparison