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Author | Topic: Christianity and the End Times | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jaywill Member (Idle past 1942 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined:
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quote: Seems clear enough to me:
... for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die. (2:17b) OR
New International Version but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die." Okay. To be fair .... here are a couple a versions interpret a typical day as you want it.
Contemporary English Version except the one that has the power to let you know the difference between right and wrong. If you eat any fruit from that tree, you will die before the day is over!"
Good News Translation except the tree that gives knowledge of what is good and what is bad. You must not eat the fruit of that tree; if you do, you will die the same day." Those are paraphrased versions.It is still not a major problem. quote: That's why you have no axe, no sharp one at least. Okay I gave you examples of the way you want to understand it.Though you are now on a SOUR GRAPES attitude - "Well I didn't care anyway." If you don't care for what the Bible says I don't know why your haunting the Bible Study room. I have a slight suspicion that now that I have given you some English versions that interpret the Hebrew to mean something like the SAME DAY, you might just revive your apathy to say - "Told you so."
quote: Um, You don't give a hoot what it says?Or you do give a hoot what it says? Which way from here on out ?? Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jaywill writes:
It isn' t the way I want to understand it. It's the way it's written. Okay I gave you examples of the way you want to understand it. If you were honest, you'd acknowledge that the word "when" does not refer to nine hundred years in the future. YOU would not use it that way, so why do you pretend that the Bible would? Your child says he's hungry and you tell him he can eat "when" he gets home. You do not mean nine hundred years in the future. You don't even mean sometime within the 24-hour day. "When" is a specific point on the time line - when you get home, when you eat the fruit. It is not the equivalent of "eventually". Translating the word as "when" instead of "day" makes your interpretation worse, not better.
jaywill writes:
I'm here to point out your errors. I may have to hire an assistant. If you don't care for what the Bible says I don't know why your haunting the Bible Study room.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jaywill writes: Okay. To be fair .... here are a couple a versions interpret a typical day as you want it. Right, you need several interpretations of the word day. How does that work? If it's an inconvenient version for you it becomes more than the time it takes for one lump of daylight and one of dark it can become something entirely different, like hundreds of years?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1942 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Basically I'm with you on these beasts.
Many studies on Daniel and Revelation talk about the beasts, horns, locusts, etc. As you might see I have a desire to more closely examine Christ and the church, the overcomers, etc. I think there is a shortage of emphasis on Christ and the church in End Times discussions. But I admit many mysterious passages are devoted to the enemies of God. You are probably going to fine me skewing my talk more in the direction of Christ and what is called the testimony of Jesus in Revelation.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1942 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
We're through.
You've made my job simplier. Go enjoy your Dilbert.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1942 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined:
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quote: No, I claim no crystal ball. What we do have is a track record of God's faithfulness. For instance Christ was prophesied to come the first time, by centuries. And He CAME. We have very good fulfillment of prophecy AND indications of some of the WAYS in which God kept His word, testing men's hearts, leaving room for man's obedience, things like that. We figure some of His ways have not changed. And as He fulfilled prophecy in the first coming with certain tests to those wanting and expecting His first coming, in like manner we can bet He'll do similarly. No crystal ball.I neither insist that I could not be wrong about some things. We have the Bible to help interpret itself.We have a taste for the way God moves. We have a track record of God's previous faithfulness.And we have the Holy Spirit to help guide us into the most pertinent aspects of the truth. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1942 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
quote: When it mentions Evening and morning - one day. that pretty much indicates to me the writer has a solar day being communicated. I understand Genesis seven days as God recovering a world which had been in some unspecified time before verse 3 became waste and emptiness. YOM in some other places, not being bounded with an evening and morning may conform to one of the OTHER legitimate meanings of YOM. Strong"s Exhaustive Concordance - Hebrew / Chaldea Dictionary Yowm or (yom) Entry 3117 "from an unusual root mean. to be hot .a day (as in warm hourass), whether lit. (from ssunrise to sunset, or fromone sinset to the next), or fig. (a space of time defined bu an associated term),
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1942 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
quote: When it mentions Evening and morning - one day. that pretty much indicates to me the writer has a solar day being communicated. I understand Genesis seven days as God recovering a world which had been in some unspecified time before verse 3 became waste and emptiness. YOM in some other places, not being bounded with an evening and morning may conform to one of the OTHER legitimate meanings of YOM. Strong"s Exhaustive Concordance - Hebrew / Chaldea Dictionary Yowm or (yom) Entry 3117 "from an unusual root mean. to be hot .a day (as in warm hourass), whether lit. (from ssunrise to sunset, or fromone sinset to the next), or fig. (a space of time defined by an associated term),
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1942 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
quote: When it mentions Evening and morning - one day. that pretty much indicates to me the writer has a solar day being communicated. I understand Genesis seven days as God recovering a world which had in some unspecified time before verse 3 became waste and emptiness. A previous violent overthrow. My belief is coined by some as "Gap Theory" - an interval of unspecified time between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2. Bible says God MADE the earth in six days, not that He created it in six days. YOM in some other places, not being bounded with an evening and morning may conform to one of the OTHER legitimate meanings of YOM. Strong"s Exhaustive Concordance - Hebrew / Chaldea Dictionary Yowm or (yom) Entry 3117 "from an unusual root mean. to be hot .a day (as in warm hours), whether lit. (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or fig. a space of time defined by an associated term, (often used adv.) + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily ... lasting, - more) x full, life+ elder, x end + old, + outlived, season, space then, process of time as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when (a, the, within a) while (that) x whole (+ age) (full) year (-ly) + younger It can be pretty technical. I am just copying from the Hebrew Dictionary as far as I am able to here. Some of it throws the Hyper Text into confusion. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Given that the bible is a collection of simple stories told to simple folk, a 'day' is actually a day. To say otherwise is simply lying to fit whatever it is you need to believe.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1942 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
quote: You think the writer of the details of the Tabernacle with all its precise measurements and technical specifications was just a "simple folk". I don't You think the writer of the voluminous geographic description of the boundaries of the land of Canaan, how its was aportioned up between the twelve tribes was written by "simple folk". I don't. You think the long histories of genealogical information was written by "simple folk". I don't. You think the Table of Nations describing how humans divided and settled into tribes, clans, families, social groups was compiled by "simple folk". I don't think great amounts of the Pentateuch reflects the writing of "simple folk." Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1942 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
"Now the serpent was more crafty than any other animal of the field that Jehovah God had made ... (Gen 4:1) I learned a long time ago not to confuse [some] accounts of simplicity with naivete. Very good teachers are masters at their material to the extent that they can break down intricate and profound issues is quite eccesible ways for the consumption of many people. Let's take the talking serpent for an example. it is not just modern people who realize animals can't speak. Thousands of years ago people knew JUST AS WELL that animals are not suppose to talk. God has a way of communicating a profound truth to the largest number of people in all generations. There is a great cosmic being and angelic creation of immense former authority. And he is a adversary to God and the eternal purpose of God. We will read more of him in future books of the Bible. He is a creation of God yet turned himself to be the opposite of all that God is. He could not usurp God. So he became the opposite of all that God is. This situation God must communicate to the most number of people in the world for generations to come. There exists an INTELLIGENCE in the universe beside God and beside Man. That intelligence is subtle, evil, diametrically opposed to God, and desirous to ruin the very meaning of man's reason for being created. A speaking serpent will do the job. The most number of people in the world will get something of the truth. There is about an evil nemesis to God Almighty who is cunning enough to deceive the whole world. By reading ON the picture is filled in. I learned not to mistake simplicity for naivete.
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jar Member (Idle past 395 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Except for the fact that in the story the serpent still tells the truth while the God does not.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jaywill writes: You think the writer of the details of the Tabernacle with all its precise measurements and technical specifications was just a "simple folk". Yes.
I don't I guess you've been wrong before.
You think the writer of the voluminous geographic description of the boundaries of the land of Canaan, how its was aportioned up between the twelve tribes was written by "simple folk". I don't. You think the long histories of genealogical information was written by "simple folk". I don't. You think the Table of Nations describing how humans divided and settled into tribes, clans, families, social groups was compiled by "simple folk". I don't think great amounts of the Pentateuch reflects the writing of "simple folk." Is there a reason why I should care what you think? You appear to believe stone-age myths but not fully evidenced modern day events. You're a zealot that thinks that making stuff up about what the bible actually says is somehow Christian. The bible is fiction, not history.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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jaywill writes:
Yes, ignoring the truth is simple. If there was any substance to your position, you wouldn't be so quick to run away. We're through.You've made my job simplier. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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