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Author
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Topic: Thinking outside the box of empirical evidence.
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Yrreg
Member (Idle past 4952 days) Posts: 64 Joined: 11-21-2006
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Message 1 of 12 (583118)
09-24-2010 5:33 PM
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[This is a post from me in my thread on the ouija board. I am starting a new thread with it.]
Re: About thinking outside the box, consider that there is the biggest box anyone...
You are talking about empirical evidence, unless I am mistaken.
That is a box which you should not box yourself in because there are things which an intelligent mind is certain of even if you cannot produce empirical evidence to support them. For example, if you think intelligently and not be boxed in by empirical evidence, you will have certainty that there is something outside the box that is the existence extending from the point of the socalled big bang and the ballooning edge of the observable universe. Yrreg
Let us start with people who insist on empirical evidence to present to us some things they know to exist from empirical evideence. Yrreg
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2 by Admin, posted 09-24-2010 6:15 PM | | Yrreg has replied |
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Admin
Director Posts: 13038 From: EvC Forum Joined: 06-14-2002 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 2 of 12 (583128)
09-24-2010 6:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Yrreg
09-24-2010 5:33 PM
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You're proposing that there are approaches to knowing things that do not rely upon empirical evidence, so it's up to you to make clear what they are.
| -- | Percy | | | EvC Forum Director |
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Yrreg, posted 09-24-2010 5:33 PM | | Yrreg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3 by Yrreg, posted 09-24-2010 6:53 PM | | Admin has replied |
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Yrreg
Member (Idle past 4952 days) Posts: 64 Joined: 11-21-2006
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Message 3 of 12 (583131)
09-24-2010 6:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
09-24-2010 6:15 PM
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I am asking about things people who insist on empirical evidence to give examples...
Admin writes: You're proposing that there are approaches to knowing things that do not rely upon empirical evidence, so it's up to you to make clear what they are. I am asking about things people who insist on empirical evidence to give examples of things they know to exist from empirical evidence. So that everyone will come to a concurring idea of what exactly is empirical evidence. You want me to give from myself an example of empirical evidence by which I know that something exists? But I am the one who is asking about empirical evidence from people who do insist on empirical evidence as the only kind of criterion for the determination of the certainty of a thing's existence. From examples given by people insisting on empirical evidence then readers and everyone else will not be mistaken about what is empirical evidence. If you want me to give an example of empirical evidence by which I understand people who insist on empirical evidence for the certainty of a thing existing, then here is my example:
Now, can I have examples from others here who know about the existence of things from empirical evidence? Yrreg
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2 by Admin, posted 09-24-2010 6:15 PM | | Admin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 4 by Admin, posted 09-24-2010 7:22 PM | | Yrreg has replied |
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Admin
Director Posts: 13038 From: EvC Forum Joined: 06-14-2002 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 4 of 12 (583132)
09-24-2010 7:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 3 by Yrreg
09-24-2010 6:53 PM
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Re: I am asking about things people who insist on empirical evidence to give examples...
There are already a number of threads discussing the nature of evidence:
| -- | Percy | | | EvC Forum Director |
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by Yrreg, posted 09-24-2010 6:53 PM | | Yrreg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 5 by Yrreg, posted 09-24-2010 7:53 PM | | Admin has replied |
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Yrreg
Member (Idle past 4952 days) Posts: 64 Joined: 11-21-2006
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Message 5 of 12 (583135)
09-24-2010 7:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
09-24-2010 7:22 PM
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Re: I am asking about things people who insist on empirical evidence to give examples...
Well, it's your call to close this thread, but I think it is a different way and more down to earth to approach the issue of what exactly is empirical evidence, by which people box themselves in, who cannot or will not think of existence that cannot be supported from their idea of empirical evidence. Yrreg
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4 by Admin, posted 09-24-2010 7:22 PM | | Admin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 6 by Admin, posted 09-25-2010 6:36 AM | | Yrreg has replied |
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Admin
Director Posts: 13038 From: EvC Forum Joined: 06-14-2002 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 6 of 12 (583157)
09-25-2010 6:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 5 by Yrreg
09-24-2010 7:53 PM
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Re: I am asking about things people who insist on empirical evidence to give examples...
Is there some reason you can't ask for examples of empirical thinking in those other threads?
| -- | Percy | | | EvC Forum Director |
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 5 by Yrreg, posted 09-24-2010 7:53 PM | | Yrreg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 7 by Yrreg, posted 09-25-2010 5:00 PM | | Admin has replied |
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Yrreg
Member (Idle past 4952 days) Posts: 64 Joined: 11-21-2006
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Message 7 of 12 (583246)
09-25-2010 5:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 6 by Admin
09-25-2010 6:36 AM
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Re: I am asking about things people who insist on empirical evidence to give examples...
I would rather have my own thread because I think that I have a different and more down to earth approach to the question of what exactly is empirical evidence as demanded by atheists when they are exchanging ideas with theists on all kinds of questions on life and the universe. And I think modesty aside my way and approach to my own inquiry, "Thinking outside the box of empirical evidence", is more intelligent than what I consider to be other people's treatment of the same question, what is empirical evidence, because I look at empirical evidence as a box that atheists don't care to go outside of to do their thinking. Yrreg
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by Admin, posted 09-25-2010 6:36 AM | | Admin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 8 by Admin, posted 09-26-2010 7:56 AM | | Yrreg has replied |
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Admin
Director Posts: 13038 From: EvC Forum Joined: 06-14-2002 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 8 of 12 (583315)
09-26-2010 7:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 7 by Yrreg
09-25-2010 5:00 PM
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Re: I am asking about things people who insist on empirical evidence to give examples...
As I said right up front, you need to be clear about what's outside "the box of empirical evidence." Thread proposals can often be a negotiation between proposer and moderator while they work together toward an acceptable opening post, but there are some requirements about which moderators are reluctant to compromise. Making sure a thread proposal clearly describes its topic is one of those requirements. If you're not going to be clear about what you're proposing as an alternative to empiricism then I am not going to promote this thread.
| -- | Percy | | | EvC Forum Director |
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by Yrreg, posted 09-25-2010 5:00 PM | | Yrreg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 9 by Yrreg, posted 09-26-2010 5:38 PM | | Admin has replied |
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Yrreg
Member (Idle past 4952 days) Posts: 64 Joined: 11-21-2006
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Message 9 of 12 (583379)
09-26-2010 5:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 8 by Admin
09-26-2010 7:56 AM
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Re: I am asking about things people who insist on empirical evidence to give examples...
Before anything else, it is your call to close this thread, or to continue to argue with me on the relevancy of this thread in some board of this forum. The way I see you, you are already becoming an obstacle to the free flow of ideas in this forum against the intentions of the founder. If you know about the meltdown of the Internet Infidels Discussion Board (IIDB), it suffered a calamitous meltdown owing to people like you, who wielded so much power due to the confidence and trust in them from the part of owners of the board, that they started to act arbitrarily in their treatment of lesser supervisors and mass posters members of the forum. Now, read about the catastrophic meltdown of the Richard Dawkins forum, it is the same sad story of people like you who wielded so much power, that they did more harm than any good they thought they were serving in the forum, by their employment of arbitrary to my observation powers to obstruct the free flow of ideas. I am not going to continue to cater your obstructionistic or sadistic self-indulgence. You can ask forever all kinds of questions in order to show readers here that you need my answers to decide where to put my thread. You want to know what is outside the box of empirical evidence? What about dark matter and dark energy and infinite regression? Yrreg
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 8 by Admin, posted 09-26-2010 7:56 AM | | Admin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 10 by Admin, posted 09-27-2010 8:45 AM | | Yrreg has not replied |
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Admin
Director Posts: 13038 From: EvC Forum Joined: 06-14-2002 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 10 of 12 (583440)
09-27-2010 8:45 AM
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Reply to: Message 9 by Yrreg
09-26-2010 5:38 PM
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Re: I am asking about things people who insist on empirical evidence to give examples...
Yrreg writes: You want to know what is outside the box of empirical evidence? What about dark matter and dark energy and infinite regression? While we don't know what dark matter and dark energy are, the terms refer to phenomena for which we have empirical evidence. That leaves infinite regressions as possibly being outside the box of empirical evidence. Remember that it is you who claim we need to think outside the box of empirical evidence, implying that you know what is outside that box. So did you really mean to say that we should be taking infinite regressions into account? Are there circumstances where you think we should be applying infinite regressions but are not? If so, can you provide an example or two so that others can understand the kinds of things you have in mind?
| -- | Percy | | | EvC Forum Director |
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by Yrreg, posted 09-26-2010 5:38 PM | | Yrreg has not replied |
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Yrreg
Member (Idle past 4952 days) Posts: 64 Joined: 11-21-2006
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Message 11 of 12 (583497)
09-27-2010 6:24 PM
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Dark matter and dark energy are founded on empirical evidence? show it.
Dark matter and dark energy are founded on empirical evidence? show it. And I have these two messages for you, owner and moderator and whatever else you do in this forum because you are the owner:
Yrreg writes: Thanks for reading my posts. If this Percy is the owner of this forum he is doing a great discredit to it by acting the way he does in reacting to my posts. Ah yes, he will say that he is the owner and he can do anything he wants, and if I don't like it I can get out. That is exactly the way to kill a forum presumably intended from the lofty purpose of availing people the free flow of ideas. And this thing of him deciding whether a thread should go somewhere instead of leaving it to the poster to decide and for the rest of posters to join in to eventually narrow down the subject of the thread, that is really not different from censorship. But that is the mentality and attitude of atheists and evolutionists, they indulge in their self-conceit that they are rational and open-minded but they make sure that only they can talk and anyone else saying their piece should be treated with scorn and derision. I have this idea that atheists are people who choose to not think intelligently. And what is intelligence? It is that habit and behavior which is tested and scored in IQ tests and also being examined by researchers in artificial intelligence and also extraterrestrial intelligence, at least the kind of intelligence that can think outside of the empirical evidence box (not that I am against totally the criterion of empirical evidence in science). Yrreg --------------------------- I don't as a rule take any trouble to find out whether the one I am reacting to is anything in the forum except that he is like me a man in the street poster trying to engage other people with intelligent thinking outside all kinds of boxes which some people imagine that they should be paying allegiance to owing to their being scientific or skeptical. I am a theist but I do think outside all kinds of boxes even my own theism and Christian faith. Is that possible? Not only possible but necessary if anyone is sincerely interested in getting to the biggest picture of life and the universe insofar as humans can be capable of by intelligent thinking. Yrreg
Time for you to do some self searching examination on your kind of heart and mind and attitude here. Yrreg
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 12 by Admin, posted 09-27-2010 7:05 PM | | Yrreg has not replied |
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Admin
Director Posts: 13038 From: EvC Forum Joined: 06-14-2002 Member Rating: 2.1
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Message 12 of 12 (583504)
09-27-2010 7:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 11 by Yrreg
09-27-2010 6:24 PM
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Re: Dark matter and dark energy are founded on empirical evidence? show it.
Yrreg writes: Dark matter and dark energy are founded on empirical evidence? show it. We're here to work toward an acceptable thread proposal, not have a discussion, but if you disagree that the concepts of dark matter and dark energy are based upon empirical evidence then you could propose a thread to discuss that topic. As we don't seem to be making any progress I'm going to close this thread proposal now, but if you decide you'd like to it reopened just post a note to Thread Reopen Requests 2. In the meantime, I think your questions about examples of empirical thinking would be just fine in any of the threads I suggested in Message 4.
| -- | Percy | | | EvC Forum Director |
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 11 by Yrreg, posted 09-27-2010 6:24 PM | | Yrreg has not replied |
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