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Author Topic:   Does Eve know God more than Adam?
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 46 of 63 (456326)
02-17-2008 9:09 AM


Why did Jesus have to be 'born' anyway?
Why couldn't He just appear from nowhere?

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Greatest I am, posted 02-17-2008 9:22 AM Brian has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 47 of 63 (456331)
02-17-2008 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
02-17-2008 4:33 AM


Re: Which Came First?
Phat
Just noticed your new picture. Cute.
I disagree with your statement.
Without man God has 0 authority. It is we who recognize this God or that God. We have dominion over the whole concept of God. We define Him.
The same goes for Jesus.
The problem gets even worse for Jesus. Here we have to not only define His human attributes but also His divine ones and try to dither out how this new hybrid God can die like some poor human schnook.
Plus imagine a huge sacrifice for mankind when all He did was sleep for three days.
The concept of God was crested by man. His mind was inspired by something (inspired) but we are still defining what God is or we all would not be in this place. We seek as we always have with the changing times to improve our notions of what God represents.
If we are truly in His image then you and I do not think as the ancients did.
Our God cannot be the same God that they saw.
This is why the Bibles have a hard time with our new view of slaves, women and Gays.
Let us continue to improve God to our new image.
The ancients knew that God had to grow and change. This is why they did not give God a name and asked us to not follow false idols.
God is dead. Long live God
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 02-17-2008 4:33 AM Phat has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 48 of 63 (456332)
02-17-2008 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Brian
02-17-2008 9:09 AM


Probably for the same reason that the followers of Moses built the cow. They needed a physical manifestation to strengthen their beliefs. I think.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Brian, posted 02-17-2008 9:09 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Brian, posted 02-17-2008 9:28 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 49 of 63 (456334)
02-17-2008 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Greatest I am
02-17-2008 9:22 AM


Either that or to 'fulfil' a prophecy. Although the Virgin Birth causes more problems that it solves.
However, it is the desperation that is evident in the evangelists' writings that are the greatest clues as to why Jesus was no God, and no messiah.
The true messiah will not need men to contort scripture to fit His entrance in to the world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Greatest I am, posted 02-17-2008 9:22 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Greatest I am, posted 02-17-2008 1:18 PM Brian has not replied
 Message 55 by IamJoseph, posted 02-23-2008 2:13 PM Brian has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 50 of 63 (456365)
02-17-2008 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Brian
02-17-2008 9:28 AM


I agree.
Phat
If the godhead is made up of men's souls then it is very possible that What we call God is a consolidation of these souls with no actual head of heaven.
God may be the issue of a cosmic consciousness.
This would allow for God to evolve along with men.
If He does not then when we die all that we are is lost to the universe and God is a stagnant entity. If that is the case then we may as well all be atheists. Their version of reality would be closer to the truth.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Brian, posted 02-17-2008 9:28 AM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by IamJoseph, posted 02-23-2008 6:46 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 51 of 63 (457399)
02-23-2008 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
01-27-2008 9:24 AM


Topic: Does Eve know God more than Adam?
The factors which apply, at least from the texts, are:
Eve was the final facet of creation, and by the factor of microcosm, she would potentially possess more inherent info than any precedent entity.
We find in the text this pointed verse: "WHATEVER SARAH TELLS YOU TO DO - DO IT' [Genesis]. That this was said to Abraham, the father of all prophets, makes it a double whammy, at least inferring that Sarah knew more than Abraham of Gd's Will.
The same applies with Rebecca, who transcended the views of her husband Isaac and her son Jacob - two Prophets - and changed history by interchanging the positions of Jacob and Esau; the texts later affirms that Rebecca did the right thing, and that both Isaac, Jacob and Esau agreed with her. Again, this says the female knew more than the males.
With Adam and Eve, there is no indication that Adam made any thoughtful deliberations - this is only seen with Eve in her deliberations with the serpent. And deliberations mean one is more knowledgeable. Eve was correct in eating of the forbidden fruit in one sense, while Adam was not: he gave Eve incorrect info, saying that touching the fruit would result in death, when he should have said only eating the fruit would cause death. Eve proved Adam wrong, and only ate after proving Adam wrong.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 52 of 63 (457400)
02-23-2008 6:46 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Greatest I am
02-17-2008 1:18 PM


quote:
If the godhead is made up of men's souls then it is very possible that What we call God is a consolidation of these souls with no actual head of heaven.
Negative from the POV that humans are a recent, late/last phenomenon, and the premise of the Creator was precedent and independent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Greatest I am, posted 02-17-2008 1:18 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Greatest I am, posted 02-23-2008 9:04 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 53 of 63 (457408)
02-23-2008 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by IamJoseph
02-23-2008 6:46 AM


Thanks for the previous. Rather good.
I would wonder then why women are so under represented in discussion and leadership within religion. They are sorely needed if they are truly wiser than men.
As to when God began, If we are in his image then there is a connection. He tells us that He is like us. If so then we must have been around for His template.
Did He really have true intellectual substance before we were here to recognize Him.
Would He need to develop morals and ethics in a reality that had no one to appreciate or need it?
If He was everything in the beginning and our souls joined with Him, in the melding type of way, then the original form is no longer.
God like us can then be said to evolve. To make God a stagnant entity would mean that we at our death have 0 influence or impact on the Godhead. We may as well be atheists if we believe that we just evaporate to nothing and have no effect on God.
He may have created man just for this reason. To evolve. Stagnation may have become boring.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by IamJoseph, posted 02-23-2008 6:46 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by IamJoseph, posted 02-23-2008 2:06 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 54 of 63 (457440)
02-23-2008 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Greatest I am
02-23-2008 9:04 AM


That women are a higher spiritual force is indicated by making them immune from all laws in the OT which are subject to time. Because woman have a greater role, namely as the processor and sustainer of life - the first commandment [Go forth and multiply]. This task requires foresight of the future, to be able to know and prepare for the child's birth and first 3 years, while the man is pre-occupied elsewhere, like making a living.
There is no beginning for the Creator, who is described as not subject to change. Thus the opening 4 words of genesis states only that before the beginning of the universe, there was only the creator: IN THE BEGINNING GOD.
Cheers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Greatest I am, posted 02-23-2008 9:04 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Greatest I am, posted 02-23-2008 4:41 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 55 of 63 (457442)
02-23-2008 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Brian
02-17-2008 9:28 AM


Yet there was a mysterious compulsion here, which defies all reasoning. If one was in that same space-time, he would most probably bet against this belief taking hold, and demand more than 3rd party reportings: if he observed Judaism, he would demand a direct revelation - as occured with Moses. But this did not happen. we see two such religions developed, some 2000 years after Judaism - and both are contradictory to each other, negate each other - but emerged in the same vicinity. Both cannot be right. How can such an ubsurd phenomenon happen?!

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Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 56 of 63 (457469)
02-23-2008 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by IamJoseph
02-23-2008 2:06 PM


Last time I checked it took two humans a male and a female to multiply.
In value I would give each 50 - 50 in value.
Now if you had to start a new tribe a pregnant female might have an advantage if she were pregnant with a male inside.
If all there was in the beginning was God then He had to change the status quo when He created the universe and us.
It can then be said that God changed or evolved.
If He could not we would not be here and we would have no meaning to Him after our death.
God evolves at all times. So does man.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by IamJoseph, posted 02-23-2008 2:06 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by IamJoseph, posted 02-23-2008 9:09 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 57 of 63 (457471)
02-23-2008 4:46 PM


Prophecy
If God must fulfill prophecy, then what of His free will.
If He has to work to some given timetable then His free will is compromised.
This cannot happen.
Thus prophecies cannot be true.
Regards
DL

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by IamJoseph, posted 02-23-2008 9:15 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 58 of 63 (457516)
02-23-2008 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Greatest I am
02-23-2008 4:41 PM


The first male and female, according to Genesis, emerged as one dual entity ['MALE AND FEMALE CREATED HE THEM'/Gen]; how this is presented by science is left to be seen - but mostly it has not been addressed, because of ToE being the flavor of the times. But the woman was seperated, in a sense constituting the final touch in life form origins.
IMHO, there is no alternative to the first of every species being dual-gendered, or positive and negative, and that the first duality became seperated. An offspring is the result of a duality, not a singularity. Single celled life forms is an expressionism only - there is no singularity and nothing happens with just ONE. All actions are the result of a minimum of two - namely a specific and mutually impacting duality which exhibits an interaction. And an inter-active duality confirms only a hovering control factor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Greatest I am, posted 02-23-2008 4:41 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 59 of 63 (457517)
02-23-2008 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Greatest I am
02-23-2008 4:46 PM


Re: Prophecy
The question is not whether one believes in a Creator who is unprovable - but whether one believes in a deity called 'Nature' which is unprovable! Those are the only two options on the table. Choose one - and explain your reasoning in an imperical mode.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Greatest I am, posted 02-23-2008 4:46 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4986 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 60 of 63 (460034)
03-12-2008 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
01-27-2008 9:24 AM


I believe Adam and Eve represent the masculine and feminine that we all possess. I also believe the good and evil refers to knowing/experiencing everything in one state of consciousness.
When that state of consciousness is fulfilled, another begins to emerge. A new era.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 01-27-2008 9:24 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Greatest I am, posted 03-12-2008 4:53 PM pelican has replied

  
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