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Author | Topic: How do you define the word Evolution? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
How do you determine the amount of genetic information? Quantify genetic information. That's the point. Word salads won't help you.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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All living organisms are biological machines. DNA provides the instructions for building biological machines. What has more information: a royal straight flush?a hand without even a pair? Or is the "information" only in the eye of the beholder? Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Actually, you're right; so I'll go back to something like my original definition of evolution. In biology, the word, "evolution" can't be separated from Darwin's theory, which obviously has common descent at it's core. The gratuitous, ubiquitous and misleading use of the word, "evolution" in the biological sciences is always an allusion to Darwinism, which I reject as false, useless and irrelevant. So to hell with ToE, just give me biology and I'll be happy. As Danno used to say, "Just the facts, ma'am." (Danno would have made an excellent biologist ... but a lousy evolutionist.) When I become King of Australia I'll ban the teaching of ToE at all levels of education, thereby draining the swamp that the once-noble science of biology has become, liberating and cleansing it from the mendacious theology of atheist cultism. Evolution = Biology + the atheist cult of Darwinism I can find little meaning in this fatuous stew of nonsense, but it seems like you are pretending that "evolution" always alludes to common descent. As you know, this is untrue.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I can make such a claim and I just did. DNA is an instruction manual for building a machine. A human machine is much more complex than an amoeba machine, therefore much more information is needed in the human's instruction manual. What makes you suppose that the amount of information needed is the same as the amount of information present?
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
How are those "instructions" written on the DNA molecule? What is the ink?
DNA provides the instructions for building biological machines.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Dredge writes: And you are pathetically, ludicrously wrong.Actually, you're right; so I'll go back to something like my original definition of evolution. In biology, the word, "evolution" can't be separated from Darwin's theory, which obviously has common descent at it's core. The gratuitous, ubiquitous and misleading use of the word, "evolution" in the biological sciences is always an allusion to Darwinism, which I reject as false, useless and irrelevant. So to hell with ToE, just give me biology and I'll be happy. As Danno used to say, "Just the facts, ma'am." (Danno would have made an excellent biologist ... but a lousy evolutionist.) When I become King of Australia I'll ban the teaching of ToE at all levels of education, thereby draining the swamp that the once-noble science of biology has become, liberating and cleansing it from the mendacious theology of atheist cultism. Evolution = Biology + the atheist cult of Darwinism Idiocy. That's all really, just 100% stupid. Congratulations.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Idiocy. That's all really, just 100% stupid. Congratulations. Actually it's Cognitive Dissonance and the Backfire Effect plus a little Dunning—Kruger effect added for you to Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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RAZD writes: Actually it's Cognitive Dissonance and the Backfire Effect plus a little Dunning—Kruger effect added for you to Sometimes simple is best.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1531 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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CRR Member (Idle past 2270 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
In a 2007 PNAS paper, Robert Hazen and colleagues, including Szostak, mathematically defined functional information as follows:
I(Ex) = -log2[M(Ex)/N] Equation (1) where, N = total number of possible configurations or sequences (both functional and non-functional), M(Ex) = total number of configurations or sequences that satisfy the functional requirements, I(Ex) = functional information (the number of bits necessary and sufficient to specify a given function). Entropy = Information Mistake Kirk Durston gives examples in the linked article.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2504 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
CRR writes: In a 2007 PNAS paper, Robert Hazen and colleagues, including Szostak, mathematically defined functional information..... "Functional" is why I mentioned the enormous Amoeba genome in Message 572, and pointed out that size alone is easily achieved by duplication. In Message 593, I suggested a new thread to Dredge, as he seemed to be implying by this:
Dredge writes: Message 522 In order for all life to have evolved from a common ancestor, mutations must produce limitless increases in the information stored in DNA. But genetics science cannot demonstrate that mutations produce limitless increases in the information stored in DNA. that "genetics science" cannot demonstrate that mutations produce enough increase in functional information for the life we see around us, although his use of "limitless" is presumably not to be taken literally. Perhaps you agree with him. As there's plenty of evidence for past increases in "information" (in the sense of added coding genes) via mutation and selection, I find this kind of claim odd, and think it should be supported.
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
I agree with you, bluegenes. A new thread like that would be helpful. It is rather amusing to me that these creationists distinguish between functional information and non-functional information. Coding and non-coding (non-coding basically is known as junk DNA to the man in the street, which creationists oppose so vehemently)!
I notice that the link CRR posted didn't give any examples in applying any of their formulas. It would be nice and funny to have a thread about it as applying those formulas through their vague definitions to real life examples lead to the Swedish Elk having "more genetic information" than humans. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Taq writes: The theory of evolution explains why we see this pattern of shared derived features. Yes of course it does ... and there is no other possible explanation, right? Stephen Jay Gould said that the fossil record is characterised by "sudden appearance" and "stasis", which he attributed to Punctuated Equilibrium. However, sudden appearance and stasis can also be attributed to creation.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Yes, yes, thank you for this. I had forgotten some of it, as it's been a long time since we covered this stuff in Grade 5 of primary school. There are factual points (microevolution) mixed in with some evo-speculation by atheist paleontologists (who, of course, can always be relied on to tell the truth). More Darwinism masquerading as science ... y-a-w-n.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
CRR writes: the lack of correlation between phenotype complexity and genone size is known as the C-Value Paradox Thanks, cobber. Well, no wonder it called a "Paradox" because it pretty bloody weird and counter-intuitive! My fragile, egg-shell mind is still reeling form this revelation! Chicko advised to take two Bex and have a good lay down, but I think the C-Value Paradox has caused me irreparable brain damage. Biology is freakin' dangerous! I'm wearing a helmet from now on.
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