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Author Topic:   How to explain disbelief in the all-important Bible?
pelican
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 31 of 59 (435395)
11-20-2007 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by bluegenes
11-20-2007 9:01 AM


"The majority of people do not believe in the Christian God, or that the Bible is "true" or the word of God."
How do you know this? Also how does a christian god differ from the one god professed by many religions?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by bluegenes, posted 11-20-2007 9:01 AM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Taz, posted 11-20-2007 5:47 PM pelican has replied
 Message 36 by bluegenes, posted 11-20-2007 6:39 PM pelican has replied
 Message 41 by molbiogirl, posted 11-20-2007 6:49 PM pelican has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3955 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 32 of 59 (435398)
11-20-2007 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by bluegenes
11-20-2007 5:11 PM


ou say they aren't native arabic speakers because.... they don't live in arab regions? all the muslims i know speak arabic as well because they learned it (either as children or adults) in order to be able to read the qu'ran and sunna. it may not be their first language, but it certainly is one they speak.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by bluegenes, posted 11-20-2007 5:11 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by bluegenes, posted 11-20-2007 6:25 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3319 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 33 of 59 (435399)
11-20-2007 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by pelican
11-20-2007 5:27 PM


Heinrik writes:
How do you know this?
Um, because most people in the world are not christians?
Also how does a christian god differ from the one god professed by many religions?
In other words, you're really a Buddhist at heart, right?
There's a joke about this actually. It goes like this. I believe in freedom of religion. I believe that everyone should be able to worship any god he wishes as long as he accepts Jesus Christ as his savior.
Your comment is just another way of saying the same thing.

Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by pelican, posted 11-20-2007 5:27 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by pelican, posted 11-20-2007 6:29 PM Taz has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2504 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 34 of 59 (435404)
11-20-2007 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by macaroniandcheese
11-20-2007 5:39 PM


brenna writes:
all the muslims i know speak arabic as well because they learned it (either as children or adults) in order to be able to read the qu'ran and sunna. it may not be their first language, but it certainly is one they speak.
But, if the Muslims you know were typical of the hundreds of millions on the Indian subcontinent, about half of them would never have read anything in any language. Also, a lot of my parents' generation here "learned" Latin in school, but few ever could be described as understanding it.
Sorry about the off-topic stuff, Amen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-20-2007 5:39 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 35 of 59 (435405)
11-20-2007 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Taz
11-20-2007 5:47 PM


No I'm not a buddist at heart. I went to one meeting and as soon as they said to stand when the monk entered the room and gave us a prayer to say in his honour I was ready to leave. If anyone wants reverence from me they are in for a long wait. I had to laugh.
I don't believe in organised religion at all in any shape or form, so I don't know to what you are referring with freedom as long as you accept jesus as your saviour. Huh?
However, the point I was making was we cannot know how many believe in god, but statistics of the sale of the bible show it plays an important\huge global role. In that there 'may' be a majority rule, it doesn't always make it true. This applies in any situation.
I wonder if the bible was not believed to be inspired by god and taken as a literary novel, would it be a best seller?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Taz, posted 11-20-2007 5:47 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by molbiogirl, posted 11-20-2007 6:41 PM pelican has replied
 Message 39 by Taz, posted 11-20-2007 6:45 PM pelican has replied
 Message 40 by bluegenes, posted 11-20-2007 6:48 PM pelican has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2504 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 36 of 59 (435406)
11-20-2007 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by pelican
11-20-2007 5:27 PM


Heinrik writes:
How do you know this?
How do I know that the majority of people in the world aren't Christians? Can't we just take their word for it?
Also how does a christian god differ from the one god professed by many religions?
I think it's something to do with coming to earth himself, as his son, to save us around 2000 years ago, plus numerous other details.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by pelican, posted 11-20-2007 5:27 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by pelican, posted 11-20-2007 11:31 PM bluegenes has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2669 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 37 of 59 (435407)
11-20-2007 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by pelican
11-20-2007 6:29 PM


I wonder if the bible was not believed to be inspired by god and taken as a literary novel, would it be a best seller?
Bible: 4-6 billion sold
Shakespeare: 4 billion sold
Does that answer your question?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by pelican, posted 11-20-2007 6:29 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by dwise1, posted 11-20-2007 8:22 PM molbiogirl has not replied
 Message 44 by pelican, posted 11-20-2007 10:41 PM molbiogirl has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 59 (435408)
11-20-2007 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Am5n
11-20-2007 6:39 AM


So why was it so important to be translated, copied, and is found in every book store, library, etc? If it's not important, why go through all the trouble to have it in every country?
Importance is a subjective opinion.
Some people feel that it is important. Some of these people may feel that it is important based on faulty reasoning or on information that is not true.
Some people feel that the Bible is not important. Some of these people may feel that it is not important based on faulty reasoning or on information that is not true.

Computers have cut-and-paste functions. So does right-wing historical memory. -- Rick Perlstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Am5n, posted 11-20-2007 6:39 AM Am5n has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3319 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 39 of 59 (435409)
11-20-2007 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by pelican
11-20-2007 6:29 PM


Heinrik writes:
However, the point I was making was we cannot know how many believe in god, but statistics of the sale of the bible show it plays an important\huge global role. In that there 'may' be a majority rule, it doesn't always make it true. This applies in any situation.
You honestly believe the majority of the world are christian?

Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by pelican, posted 11-20-2007 6:29 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by pelican, posted 11-21-2007 12:00 AM Taz has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2504 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 40 of 59 (435410)
11-20-2007 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by pelican
11-20-2007 6:29 PM


Heinrik writes:
I wonder if the bible was not believed to be inspired by god and taken as a literary novel, would it be a best seller?
In many cultures during most epochs, it wouldn't have got past the censors. Too much sex, and far too much violence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by pelican, posted 11-20-2007 6:29 PM pelican has not replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2669 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 41 of 59 (435411)
11-20-2007 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by pelican
11-20-2007 5:27 PM


How do you know this?
Homepage - adherents
Christianity: 2 billion --
Roman Catholicism: 1.1 billion
Protestantism: 360 million
Eastern Orthodoxy: 220 million
Anglican: 84 million
Other: 280 million
Islam: 1.3 billion --
Sunnism: 940 million
Shiism: 120 million
Hinduism 900 million
Secular / Nonreligious / Agnostic / Atheist: 850 million
Buddhism: 360 million
Chinese traditional religion: 225 million
Primal indigenous: 150 million
African Traditional and Diasporic: 95 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 14 million
Judaism: 14 million
Bahá'í Faith: 6 million
Jainism: 5 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 3 million
Tenrikyo 2.4 million
Neopaganism: 1 million
Unitarian Universalism: 800,000
Rastafarianism: 700,000
Scientology: 600,000
Zoroastrianism: 150,000
Capiche?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by pelican, posted 11-20-2007 5:27 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by pelican, posted 11-21-2007 12:09 AM molbiogirl has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2197 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 42 of 59 (435417)
11-20-2007 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
11-20-2007 7:53 AM


Re: Things Go Better With Coke
quote:
Coca-Cola is a commercial product. In many cases, the Bible is given away. While Religion is, unfortunately, also often commercialized, the good book itself seems to be distributed quite freely and indiscriminately.
Lots of drug dealers give away free samples to get you hooked before they start making you pay.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 11-20-2007 7:53 AM Phat has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 43 of 59 (435423)
11-20-2007 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by molbiogirl
11-20-2007 6:41 PM


Bible: 4-6 billion sold
Shakespeare: 4 billion sold
Does that answer your question?
I wonder if the bible was not believed to be inspired by god and taken as a literary novel, would it be a best seller?
Bible: 4-6 billion sold
Shakespeare: 4 billion sold
Does that answer your question?
Out of curiosity, was the figure for Shakespeare just the English version, or also the translations into other languages? No, I don't mean "in the original Klingon", but I was taught once that, thanks to Lessing's 18th century translation of Shakespeare into German, there are more productions of Shakespeare plays in Germany than in the English speaking world.

{When you search for God, y}ou can't go to the people who believe already. They've made up their minds and want to convince you of their own personal heresy.
("The Jehovah Contract", AKA "Der Jehova-Vertrag", by Viktor Koman, 1984)
And we who listen to the stars, or walk the dusty grade,
Or break the very atoms down to see how they are made,
Or study cells, or living things, seek truth with open hand.
The profoundest act of worship is to try to understand.
Deep in flower and in flesh, in star and soil and seed,
The truth has left its living word for anyone to read.
So turn and look where best you think the story is unfurled.
Humans wrote the Bible; God wrote the world.

(filk song "Word of God" by Dr. Catherine Faber, No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.echoschildren.org/CDlyrics/WORDGOD.HTML)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by molbiogirl, posted 11-20-2007 6:41 PM molbiogirl has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 44 of 59 (435434)
11-20-2007 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by molbiogirl
11-20-2007 6:41 PM


"Bible: 4-6 billion sold
Shakespeare: 4 billion sold
Does that answer your question?"
No. They are not comparable. Shakespeare did not claim to be inspired by god and his works are judged on literary merit not if they are true or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by molbiogirl, posted 11-20-2007 6:41 PM molbiogirl has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by subbie, posted 11-20-2007 11:07 PM pelican has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1282 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 45 of 59 (435437)
11-20-2007 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by pelican
11-20-2007 10:41 PM


Shakespeare vs. the bible
So in other words, Shakespeare's stats are more impressive because he had to rely on literary merit alone, without the con job or threat of eternal damnation.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by pelican, posted 11-20-2007 10:41 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by sidelined, posted 11-20-2007 11:24 PM subbie has not replied
 Message 50 by pelican, posted 11-21-2007 12:21 AM subbie has not replied
 Message 51 by dwise1, posted 11-21-2007 2:34 AM subbie has not replied

  
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