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Author | Topic: Choosing a faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Where are you getting those numbers from? The Holy Roman Empire began with the coronation of Charlemagne in 800 AD
quote: Which aren’t anything to do with the Holy Roman Empire. So just how many kingdoms is this “Beast” of yours?
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Paulk, the number of the beast is 666. This number
stands for the kingdom, it's first king, and everyone in the kingdom. Romulus was the founder and first king of Rome. The NT was written in Greek; the OT was written in Hebrew. The Hebrew name for Romulus is Romiith. In numericalvalue for each letter is: R=200; O=6; M=40; I=10; I=10; & TH=400. 666. Latin man, or the name of Latium from which city theRomans derived their origin and their language is Latinos in Greek. The numerical value of Lateinos in Greek is: L=30; A=1;T=300; E=5; I=10; N=50; O=70; S=200. 666. No other two words, with same numerical value, can befound in two languages meaning the same thing. 666 can also be applied to other kings of Rome, as wellas the RCC. I don't have time to ho onto it now. The beast and its image in Revelation 13 is Rome andthe RCC, the HRE. The little horn, the image of the beast, the whore thatrides the scarlet colored beast are all the same-RCC.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Not really. All Revelation says is that it’s a numerological value for one man’s name. And there are manuscripts that say it’s 616, too.
quote: Even if that is the correct transliteration it doesn’t get you any further in interpreting Daniel, because Rome is not a major player in those prophecies. And I note that you feel free to use Hebrew or Greek to help get the result you want. But of course if it’s all about the Roman Empire it can’t be about the barely-connected Holy Roman Empire (famously “neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire”).
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Paulk, you stated:
"Which aren’t anything to do with the Holy Roman Empire.So just how many kingdoms is this “Beast” of yours?" ***Most grownups, when stating that something is notwhat someone else says it is, tells us what they believe that something is. But not the one who have no idea what they are talking about. I have told many times how man horns this beast has had. It's not my beast. I am an Israelite, from the tribe ofManasseh, son of Joseph. Paulk, you lack the ability to even guess who the beast, andthe image of the beast in Rev. 13 is. You have no idea who the whore (harlot) that rides the scarlet colored beast is, or what the scarlet colored beast is. You are as lost as a little boy regarding what the mark ofthe beast is. You do not know what the beast and its image is, nor doyou know what they are not. You are totally in over your head, and you pretend that you are not.
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Paulk, you stated:
"Not really. All Revelation says is that it’s a numerologicalvalue for one man’s name. And there are manuscripts that say it’s 616, too." ***I don't care what these other manuscripts say. Theymean nothing to me. You need to read Rev. 13 again. In any event, you have no idea what Revelation is about.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: The part of my post you chose to quote simply asked a question. Which you haven’t answered. Dishonest evasion accompanied by insult is hardly productive discussion. Now the fourth Beast of Daniel 7 is A Kingdom. Not a collection of kingdoms that aren’t even closely related, so I guess you can’t be talking about that beast.
quote: No, you aren’t. We can be sure of that. And don’t worry. You don’t understand Revelation any more than I do. Probably less.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: And if I do what will I find out? That I was correct to say that Revelation only tells us that it is the numerological value of a man’s name?
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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candle2 writes:
Even if that is the correct transliteration it doesn’t get you any further in interpreting Daniel, because Rome is not a major player in those prophecies. And I note that you feel free to use Hebrew or Greek to help get the result you want. The Hebrew name for Romulus is Romiith. In numericalvalue for each letter is: R=200; O=6; M=40; I=10; I=10; & TH=400. 666. candle2 seems to forget that Hebrew is written using the Hebrew alphabet. He also forgets that there are no vowels in the Hebrew alphabet, but rather they are ALL consonants (including two silent letters which are pronounced differently). If he wants to make claims based on how something is written IN HEBREW, then he needs to provide the Hebrew spelling, not relying only on a transliteration (in the same manner that folk apologists will place great weight on naïve interpretations of word in English). Now, on my phone's Translate app I switched to Hebrew English and typed in רומיית, which it translated as "Roman". candle2, having copied without comprehension from apologists, assumed (as his sources also did no doubt, given their predilection for regurgitating what they're told, completely bypassing the brain) the values for vav for "O" (ו = 6) and for yodh for "I" (י = 10). Again, there are no Hebrew letters for vowels (eg, the kholem and the shuru are modifications of a letter, not letters in their own right -- grammarians may quibble), plus he should have based his calculation on the Hebrew, not on a Latin transliteration.
And I note that you feel free to use Hebrew or Greek to help get the result you want. He reminds me of that running joke in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU); eg:
quote: That joke apparently came from the literature, since Wikipedia reports of Victoria Hand's promotion in SHIELD's replacement agency, HAMMER:
quote: In very similar fashion, apologists have gone to great lengths to find words or names that somehow come out to 666. Start with your conclusion and sift through a shitload of possibilities until you "magically" find some random name that works. That's their Standing Operating Procedure (SOP). And as you already know but candle2 refuses to learn, the Holy Roman Empire was dissolved on 6 August 1806. That is an actual historical fact, not that candle2 ever had anything to do with actual facts. I believe that it is what the Doctor would refer to as a fixed point in time. Edited by dwise1, : "which", not "where" in my first paragraph
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
More of your cult's false teaching.
Overview of Doctrinal Errors in Herbert Armstrong’s Mystery of the AgesYou are no more an Israelite than I am the man in the moon.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
The HRE dissolved 6 August 1806. That is a historical fact.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Now, now candle2 isn’t a follower of Herbert W. Armstrong - he’s a follower of the man that Herbert W Armstrong got - or stole - the idea from.
Herbert W. Armstrong - A Plagiarist? It’s all crap. No matter who gets the (dis)credit.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
DWise1 has a good argument that indicates that the specifics of Biblical Creationism are not backed by evidence. A couple quibbles:
I have no problem with someone not accepting evolution, but I do expect them to do so based on the actual evidence and on what evolution actually is. If they reject evolution (or anything else) based on lies and misrepresentations, then we do have a problem.
[DWise1] does NOT have any such case against the Creator of all seen and unseen characterized by His eternally living Son.. Nor has that been part of my discussions here. Though I would contend that no claim of the supernatural is supported by objective evidence. Indeed, my position on the supernatural is that there is no human-detectable evidence for it outside of subjective feelings (indistinguishable from having eaten a bad burrito) or traditional teachings based on generations of making stuff up and then expanding on that. And the basic problem with making up stuff about the supernatural is that there's no way to test it outside of internal inconsistencies (which just get explained away by apologists, so even that test doesn't exist). And if the idea of a supernatural something has no evidence and cannot be tested, then highly specified and intricately detailed theologies are even more lacking. Refer to the typical got-cha argument against atheists where they get the atheist to admit that it is possible for A god to exist, whereupon they immediately use that as "proof" for their own intricate theology being the complete and absolute truth to the exclusion of all others. Instead of just naïvely assuming (or proclaiming) that their own version of "God" and "Jesus" is the only true one which everybody else must accept (refer to what's been going on between ICANT and candle2), believers must make an actual case for theirs. If they want to claim that their version is backed up evidence, then they must produce that evidence. The burden of proof is upon the believer, not upon the disbeliever. I understand the position that a believer is in. Agnosticism is the realization that we cannot know anything about the supernatural, even whether it exists let alone the highly specific details that have evolved in theologies (the problem with evolutionary processes is that they generate high levels of complexity). As such, agnosticism is the only honest position to take on the gods. From there you either don't try to assume any gods (atheism) or you assume that a god must exist (theism). Once you decide on theism, then you must also decide on which god and which teachings about that/those god(s). The believer ends up adopting a particular chain of hearsay-upon-hearsay-thousands-of-times-over. That's how that game is played. You've made your bed and now you must lie in it.
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Paulk, most Nazis went underground (under cover,
bottomless pit) at the end of WW2. A good many of then went underground before the war ended. The Nazis understood that they could possibly lose thewar. And, by 1943 (fighting on multiple fronts) many of them believed they would lose. However, they set the stage to rise again. They did notjust say goodbye; they said, goodbye for now. Many key German industries, such as Volkswagen andMesserschmitt, made contact with foreign firms in order to assure survival after the war. Not only did numerous nazi leaders go underground (thebottomless pit), but they took great wealth with them. They were assisted in their escape by both the RCC andSpain, which remained neutral during the war. Nahum 3 talks about the end-time Germany (Assyria).3:17 "Your commanders are like swarming locusts, And your Generals like great grasshoppers, which camp in the hedges on a cold day; when the sun rises they flee away, and the place where they are is not known." They escaped to Argentina and other places. Some evencame to America. Germany was not allowed to permitted to have a militaryafter the war, but they kept a force of 40,000 men, 2000 officers. Germany's Foreign Minister, Finance Minister, JusticeMinister, police force, and government staff retained 70%-90% of the staff they had during the war. They plundered the finances of the Jews to finance thegovernment. This covered about 30% of the government expenses. Those who remained in power covered up for theirfellow Nazis. From day one they functioned as a Nazi regime. Not only did many Nazis stay in power, but some becamehigh ranking commanders of NATO. The Nazi government were experts at covering up,denying, and repressing damaging information. Many of those who retained power were from the SS,Gestapo, and Stormtroppers. Historians have known about this for decades. But it isalways played down. The 7th head of the beast will soon show itself. It willconsist to 10 European nations. Some situation will cause them to come together. Many nations that are in the European Union, at this time, will not be in the end-time beast power. Germany went from a destroyed Nation at the end ofWW1 to the having the world's most powerful military in less than twenty years. The U.S. have nuclear weapons in Germany. We have agovernment that would do nothing if they confiscated them. We are timid and afraid of our own shadow. We have women and little boys leading us. America is only interested in fake racial relations, abortionissues, and homosexual and transgender issues. These are the issues that consume our leaders. America (Manasseh) will soon be reduced to nothing; weare now the world's Joker. When America falls the world will descend into chaos. Wewill no longer be the stabilizing force. Germany, and the other nine nations will pull the world out of it. The world (not including the kings of the East) will wonderafter the beast. And the false prophet will perform miracles (when in the presence of Satan), which will greatly deceive humanity. There will not be many atheists at that time. I will have to limit my posting over the next few weeks,but I will reply to you when I have the time. I advise you look into the beast going into thebottomless pit. When one understands exactly who and what the beastand the image of the beast is, one will then understand what the mark of the beast is. I am trying to get people to open their eyes.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
So rather than discuss the subject - or even explain your assertions you go off rambling about Nazis, who have nothing to do with the subject. And your own freedom-hating anti-American nonsense isn’t on-topic either.
I get that you spout ridiculous nonsense. It isn’t a reason to believe any of it.
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Paulk, what I have done is to prove to you that the little
horn, the whore riding the scarlet colored beast, and the image of the beast are all the same. They are the RCC. The 10 horns in Daniel 7 and the legs and feet in Daniel2 are the Roman Empire. The last seven horns of the 10 horns in Daniel 7 rule withthe RCC. Together that firm the HRE. The toes on the image in Daniel 2 are the ten kings on the7th head of the beast in Revelation. There is absolutely no reason why anyone cannot seethat the mark of authority of the RCC is Sunday. Never does the Holy Bible command Sunday to replacethe Saturday Sabbath. It doesn't do it. And we have people on this site that will say. Nowheredoes the Bible tell us not to worship on Sunday. This is called foolish reasoning. One even states that Jesus met with His disciples twoSundays in a row. He even takes it as rock solid proof that Sunday is the new Sabbath. The Nazis did not say goodbye. They said goodbye for now.
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