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Author Topic:   P.Z. Myers in the news (the catholic church communion wafer incident)
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 31 of 104 (475069)
07-13-2008 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by ICANT
07-11-2008 3:04 PM


Re: Re-Cracker
To the Catholic when the Priest takes the Eucharist, and blesses it. It becomes the actual body of Jesus Christ, it does not represent the body of Christ it is the actual body of Christ, so the young man did not take a cracker, he took the body of Jesus Christ.
Doesn't this make all catholics cannibals?
Is cannibalism legal in the US?
Would you advocate the rights of any other religion that eats bodies?
Isn't all of this very very very silly indeed?

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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 32 of 104 (475108)
07-13-2008 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Grizz
07-12-2008 3:55 PM


Objective???
Grizz writes:
One would be hard-pressed to find any truly objective individual who would not categorize the response as anything but sophomoric, immature, and unbecoming of a man of his academic stature and position.
Claiming objectivity for your highly subjective viewpoint isn't immature? (Anyone remember "objective persons" Ray Martinez).
One would also be hard-pressed to find anyone who, had they not known the author of such a comment, would think that it came from a distinguished academic and university professor who is at the forefront of the public push for reason and the advancement of science.
Was that meant to be a parody of pomposity?
Myers is attacking silly religious lunatics, their threats (including death threats), and their delusions about wafers. There's no reason why he shouldn't, and plenty of good reason to do so.
He has embarrassed himself....
No he hasn't. He's not embarrassed. His is the busiest science blog on the 'net, and he's having fun.
pharyngula | ScienceBlogs
Edited by bluegenes, : added link

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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 33 of 104 (475305)
07-14-2008 7:57 PM


Jesus and Mo
That wafer's getting famous.
Jesus and Mo

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 34 of 104 (475308)
07-14-2008 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by bluegenes
07-14-2008 7:57 PM


Re: Jesus and Mo
Heh! Go forward to the newer cartoon!!

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 35 of 104 (475319)
07-15-2008 5:18 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by cavediver
07-12-2008 4:12 PM


Being angry makes his actions understandable but it does not excuse them.
He's completely dropped off from behaving in a reasonable and tolerant manner on this one. Clearly he's not as bad as the crazies opposed against him; but that is a pretty low bar to jump.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by bluegenes, posted 07-15-2008 7:58 AM Dr Jack has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 36 of 104 (475323)
07-15-2008 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Dr Jack
07-15-2008 5:18 AM


Mr Jack writes:
He's completely dropped off from behaving in a reasonable and tolerant manner on this one. Clearly he's not as bad as the crazies opposed against him; but that is a pretty low bar to jump.
How tolerant of intolerance should he be?
There's a modern trend for large, powerful and very political institutions which have long and distinguished histories of claiming a monopoly on truth and of showing murderous intolerance to those who disagree with them behaving as though they're being discriminated against when their (ridiculous) beliefs are criticized or satirized.
We need to learn the difference between attacking Germans (something one either is or isn't which isn't a matter of choice, and carries no inevitable beliefs) and attacking Nazis (something controversial that people are or aren't by choice).
Although the modern Catholic church, like the modern Anglican church, appears to have become a relatively tolerant institution, all sects of all the Abrahamic religions have their fanatic fundamentalists, and as soon as they rear their ugly heads, they should be made to realise that they're superstitious morons as quickly as possible.
Crackers are just crackers, and religious nutters are religious nutters, and why shouldn't the truth about this be told loudly and regularly?

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Replies to this message:
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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4229 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 37 of 104 (475334)
07-15-2008 9:30 AM


Doesn't this make all catholics cannibals?
Is cannibalism legal in the US?
Would you advocate the rights of any other religion that eats bodies?
I dont expect you to understand, if you are from England. a guy who claims equality for gays, yet still lives in a place where the Act of Settlement 1701 is a reality. dont point the bigotry finger at us, without looking in the mirror 1st.
stealing of a consecrated eucharist is definately a serious crime. stealing unconsecrated wafers is a petty offense. It really easy to tell the difference, the consecrated ones are kept in a special place locked in the church, the wafers are kept in the back on a shelf.

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by cavediver, posted 07-15-2008 10:51 AM Artemis Entreri has replied
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 Message 60 by Deftil, posted 07-15-2008 10:26 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 38 of 104 (475340)
07-15-2008 10:31 AM


Silly superstitions
An example of another mess caused by the same ridiculous superstition.
Bloody Hell!

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 39 of 104 (475341)
07-15-2008 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by bluegenes
07-15-2008 7:58 AM


How tolerant of intolerance should he be?
It's not a question of being tolerant of intolerance or not. Nor is it a case of criticism or debate.
His piece on torturing the Eucharist is cheap, tacky and rude. It's being offensive for the sake of it, and targeted not just at those who deserve rebuke but all who feel strongly about their superstitions and traditions.
I strongly believe in a secular and tolerant society; but tolerance is not a simple matter, and those on the rational side have no less a burden of responsibility to it than those on the side of superstition.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 40 of 104 (475342)
07-15-2008 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Artemis Entreri
07-15-2008 9:30 AM


I dont expect you to understand, if you are from England. a guy who claims equality for gays, yet still lives in a place where the Act of Settlement 1701 is a reality.
Sorry, do people actually exist who argue like this??? I thought that was only in stereotype-land...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-15-2008 9:30 AM Artemis Entreri has replied

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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 41 of 104 (475353)
07-15-2008 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Dr Jack
07-15-2008 10:47 AM


Perspective, please!!
What makes you think that large, aggressive, highly-political organizations should be exempt from satire and ridicule (and rudeness) merely because they're superstition based and have killed lots of people throughout their history? Why the special privilege?
It's extremely rude, IMO, for anyone to suggest that anyone else will burn for eternity, yet these cracker loonies do it all the time. I think that you may be subconsciously backing up the special privilege of religions to be rude and bigoted, because we all grow up with them being like that, and take it for granted.
What arrogance it is for any sect of any religion to claim that those who do not follow it are condemned to eternal damnation. The likes of Myers would never do that.

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Replies to this message:
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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4229 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 42 of 104 (475360)
07-15-2008 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by cavediver
07-15-2008 10:51 AM


Sorry, do people actually exist who argue like this??? I thought that was only in stereotype-land...
somehow laws against religion are fine, while laws against sexual preference are not? you guys are strange across the pond indeed, though im sure the feeling is mutual.

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 56 by Blue Jay, posted 07-15-2008 4:50 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 43 of 104 (475364)
07-15-2008 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Artemis Entreri
07-15-2008 12:53 PM


U.K. weirdos
Artemis E writes:
somehow laws against religion are fine, while laws against sexual preference are not? you guys are strange across the pond indeed, though im sure the feeling is mutual.
Do you live in a world in which every individual in every country thinks every law on their country's statute books is "fine"? Did Disney invent this world?
Technically, we live in a protestant Christian theocracy here (because the Queen is official head of both church and state) yet in reality, we're less politically effected by protestant Christianity than you are in the land of the free! Weird world, eh, the real one.
I agree about us being strange.

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 Message 42 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-15-2008 12:53 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 44 of 104 (475366)
07-15-2008 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Dr Jack
07-15-2008 10:47 AM


His piece on torturing the Eucharist.....
How, exactly, does one torture a freakin' cracker? Waterboard it? Deprive it of sleep? Starve it?
Wow.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4229 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 45 of 104 (475367)
07-15-2008 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by bluegenes
07-15-2008 1:16 PM


Re: U.K. weirdos
Do you live in a world in which every individual in every country thinks every law on their country's statute books is "fine"? Did Disney invent this world?
Technically, we live in a protestant Christian theocracy here (because the Queen is official head of both church and state) yet in reality, we're less politically effected by protestant Christianity than you are in the land of the free! Weird world, eh, the real one.
I agree about us being strange.
nope. im just getting annoyed with being called a ignorant racist bigot, by people from across an ocean who want to judge against our laws, while they have some very bigoted laws, yet fail to mention them or acknowledge them. i believe hypocrisy is the word im thinking of.
I was originally responding to somebody who claims to be from England, I was going to leave the United Kingdom out of this, as I see a difference between the UK and England (you could be from one of the other three constituent countries).
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : forgot something

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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