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Author Topic:   Infeasibility of God
RCS
Member (Idle past 2630 days)
Posts: 48
From: Delhi, Delhi, India
Joined: 07-04-2007


Message 1 of 6 (408677)
07-04-2007 2:49 AM


Infeasibility of God
This essay is not dealing with any specific model of God. It treats
the general case of God. Although infeasibilty of a creator is
doubtful, an architect God can manage to pass, but just pass.
It shows that the attributes attached to God cannot be satisfied
simultaneously. So either God has to be brought down a few pegs or He
cannot exist feasibly.
Objective proofs for existence or non existent cannot be produced.
The reverse ie to establish the feasiblity of existence is much
harder.
Sankhya
1 God cannot be the first cause
God is said to be eternal and immutable. What is unchanging cannot be
the cause of any effect. Thus ultimate cause of universe is the
eternal yet ever changing Prakriti aka matter.
2. It may be said that matter is non intelligent and must be
controlled and directed by an intelligent agent. But God, as posited
by theists, does not act and control.
A thinker, Chaitra argued:
Cause of an effect has to be momentary, otherwise there would be
continued production of the effect. Therefore a cause must cease after it produces an effect. Effect can persist after the cause has produced it. So if God is the cause, He became extinct immediately after creation. But theists say God is eternal and not momentary.
3. Need to act. Suppose God IS and acts at a given moment, in a far
yet in finite past, why should He act ??
Before acting, He sure was inactive. What or who activated him ???
This goes into infinite regress, and is thus absurd.
God did not act to fulfill any of His ends, since He is perfect, and
is in want of nothing.
Nor can it be love and good of His creatures, which are yet to be
created. No prudent entity will work for any creature without a gain
to itself. Anyway, the world is full of misery and evil, thus
defeating the supposed love of His creatures. this disproves His
omnipotence, as He can't remove evil to and in His creatures.
This also disproves His omniscience, as He could not foresee the
future misery of His creatures.
If in spite of this we consider Him as the Ultimate Creator, then He
is cruel in allowing His creatures to be in misery.
4. Inconsistent with Self. God is inconsistent with individual reality ie of soul. If soul is part of God, then every individual should have a part of His divinity. It is not so.
If soul is created by God, then it can be destroyed too. What is
rationality of hell fires for an entity which can be annihilated
anyway??? Why punish souls at all ???
Otherwise soul HAS to be eternal and immortal !!! But atheists deny
eternity and immortality of any object except God.
Last alternative is that there is no soul. That reduces the living
creatures as images in clay moved by some forces other than Godly. And if there is no soul, then death is the finality. In such a case, God becomes redundant.
What will be punished or rewarded after death ???
6. Production involves some motion. If matter was motionless, it could not moved without an action-reaction phenomenon. If God is acted upon by the reaction, he cannot be infinite. If he indeed is infinite, then he would need infinite amount of energy to move himself to induce motion and change.
Conclusion is that God cannot exist, and Prakriti aka primal matter,
which is in perpetual motion, is the first cause. Eternal laws of
nature govern that motion and change.
Jain
1. God is imperceptible.
Even theists cannot claim to have seen God. But they try to prove Him
by inference. Theists claim that the world is created by God. But they are yet to prove that world is a CREATED product. They could not have observed the creation act itself, as they themselves were yet to be created.
2. A single God is unproved
Theists claim that God is ONE.They argue that multiple Gods may lead
to conflicts. This is not tenable as we daily see teams of humans
working on a project, even ants working in a co-ordinated fashion.
Therefore if one God is possible then many, in fact infinite number of Gods are possible. This clearly is absurd because infinite number is impossible to achieve.
3. God cannot be perfect
A perfect object can be perfect in comparison with an imperfect
object. If God is perfect then what is His imperfect counterpart ?? Oh no, not Satan, satan can be evil and yet be perfect !!!
Perfection is achieved by removal of imperfections. It is meaningless
to call an object perfect unless it was imperfect. If imperfections
were indeed removed, then at one God was less than perfect.
Who removed the imperfections of God ??? Infinite regress waits for
you.
*****
My supplements.
1. Doubtful eternity
God is posited as His own cause. Good God. Can a theist point to any
such an event taking place ??? God being self created should go on
creating Himself ad infinitum.
2. Either God is non-entity like a sky-lotus and there is no
possibility of Creation by that Non Entity [God].
3. Why should He create ??
If He is guided by some one else He is not free.
If He is guided in creation/destruction of world due good/bad actions
of His creatures, then He is not free.
If He created as a sport and amusement then He is not free, as He
depends on His creatures for His entertainment. In addition he is not
perfect if he needs amusement. Without the amusement he is not
perfect.
If He had no power of creation in the very beginning ie in infinitely
remote past, then He can not acquire IT LATER. but since God is said
to be immutable, He cannot acquire such powers, and some other entity
conferred it upon Him. Infinite regress.
If creation is due to His existence and nature, then there should be
simultaneous production of the God and the world. In such a case God
may be even an incidental effect, not causally related to creation.
Just like the sound of driving a nail is NOT related to the driving of the nail.
If it is said that creation emanated out of Him unintentionally, then
He is not in control of Himself. It additionally makes Him not
"intelligent, omnipotent, omniscient" and a careless entity. On the
other hand if the emanations were volatary, God is less than He was
before the emanations.
Conclusion: Feasibility of God existing is not established.
***
PS: Proofs of existence of God, including those of Agustine, Aquinas or Kalam, are not something novel. They existed before them, and were duly refuted

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 07-06-2007 6:41 AM RCS has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 6 (408951)
07-06-2007 6:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RCS
07-04-2007 2:49 AM


Welcome to EvC
Welcome to EvC RCS,
Thank you for proposing a new topic and adding to our diversity. Since you are new to EvC, I suggest that you carefully read the Forum Guidelines and familiarize yourself with the functions of EvC by using the Practice Makes Perfect Forum or posting in existing threads.
I'm not inclined to promote your proposed topic as written because it has too many possible subtopics. I suggest you focus on one aspect of your essay. If you decide to rework your opening post, respond to this post and let me know it is ready to review again. If I receive no response from you by Sunday, I will close this PNT.
In the purple signature box below, you'll find some links that will help make your journey here pleasant.
As members, we are guests on this board and as guests we are asked to put forth our best behavior. Please read the Forum Guidelines carefully and understand the wishes of our host. Abide by the Forum Guidelines and you will be a welcome addition.
Again welcome and fruitful debating. Purple

Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encyclopedia Brittanica, on debate

Links for comments on moderation procedures and/or responding to admin msgs:
  • General discussion of moderation procedures
  • Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
  • Thread Reopen Requests
  • Great Debate Proposals
    Helpful links for New Members:
    Forum Guidelines, [thread=-19,-112], [thread=-17,-45], and Practice Makes Perfect

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by RCS, posted 07-04-2007 2:49 AM RCS has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 3 by RCS, posted 07-06-2007 11:21 AM AdminPD has replied

    RCS
    Member (Idle past 2630 days)
    Posts: 48
    From: Delhi, Delhi, India
    Joined: 07-04-2007


    Message 3 of 6 (408983)
    07-06-2007 11:21 AM
    Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPD
    07-06-2007 6:41 AM


    Re: Welcome to EvC
    Thank you very much for encouragement and advice. A good word of advice is never superfluous.
    In fact, Sir, this is one integrated topic. One argument may impinge upon another. I had to do quite a survey of Indian philosophies for this. The background notes run into about 55 pages.
    The ideas may appear radical, and some cases even alien too. But I will like to field it as it is.
    Response if any may take time, it will take to understand and digest it.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 07-06-2007 6:41 AM AdminPD has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 4 by AdminPD, posted 07-06-2007 2:37 PM RCS has replied

    AdminPD
    Inactive Administrator


    Message 4 of 6 (409003)
    07-06-2007 2:37 PM
    Reply to: Message 3 by RCS
    07-06-2007 11:21 AM


    Topic Not Promoted
    quote:
    But I will like to field it as it is.
    Unfortunately that means I will have to reject this topic proposal.
    Per the rules: When introducing a new topic, please keep the message narrowly focused. Do not include more than a few points.
    Threads only last for 300 posts and there are too many topics possible in your OP.
    I will be closing the proposal.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 3 by RCS, posted 07-06-2007 11:21 AM RCS has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5 by RCS, posted 07-06-2007 8:40 PM AdminPD has replied

    RCS
    Member (Idle past 2630 days)
    Posts: 48
    From: Delhi, Delhi, India
    Joined: 07-04-2007


    Message 5 of 6 (409029)
    07-06-2007 8:40 PM
    Reply to: Message 4 by AdminPD
    07-06-2007 2:37 PM


    Re: Topic Not Promoted
    Sir, the topic is focussed on just one point : That God is not feasible.
    Do as you like. If you reject and delete it, please notify me, so I can resign my membership.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 4 by AdminPD, posted 07-06-2007 2:37 PM AdminPD has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 6 by AdminPD, posted 07-06-2007 9:02 PM RCS has not replied

    AdminPD
    Inactive Administrator


    Message 6 of 6 (409031)
    07-06-2007 9:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 5 by RCS
    07-06-2007 8:40 PM


    Re: Topic Not Promoted
    We do not delete proposals, but this proposal will not be promoted as written and will be closed.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by RCS, posted 07-06-2007 8:40 PM RCS has not replied

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