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Author Topic:   Texas to open up for science degrees from creationist institute
Shield
Member (Idle past 2863 days)
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-29-2008


Message 1 of 17 (503722)
03-21-2009 1:35 PM


Texas legislaters are trying to get a bill through that basically gives creationist institutes the right to give out Master of Science degrees without any of the regulations requirede by real educationel schools/colleges and universities.
The bill can be found here:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/...billtext/html/HB02800I.htm
Fox News and discover are also covering this:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/...-haha-degree-hahahahaha
Texas | Fox News
Edited by rbp, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Larni, posted 03-21-2009 3:02 PM Shield has not replied
 Message 3 by shalamabobbi, posted 03-21-2009 4:07 PM Shield has not replied
 Message 4 by Son, posted 03-21-2009 4:17 PM Shield has not replied
 Message 5 by shalamabobbi, posted 03-31-2009 4:28 PM Shield has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 165 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 2 of 17 (503727)
03-21-2009 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Shield
03-21-2009 1:35 PM


Ya!
I'm going to go to Texas for an easy Masters!
Maybe Dumbfuckistan is becoming more a reality?
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

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shalamabobbi
Member (Idle past 2850 days)
Posts: 397
Joined: 01-10-2009


Message 3 of 17 (503731)
03-21-2009 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Shield
03-21-2009 1:35 PM


possible uses of the masters degree..
Maybe the masters will be used to qualify to teach sunday school in the state of Texas..

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 Message 1 by Shield, posted 03-21-2009 1:35 PM Shield has not replied

  
Son
Member (Idle past 3831 days)
Posts: 346
From: France,Paris
Joined: 03-11-2009


Message 4 of 17 (503734)
03-21-2009 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Shield
03-21-2009 1:35 PM


Maybe i should go to Texas. I want a master too but I'm too lazy to work to get one...
I hope this law pass,when everyone masters from Texas won't be able to get a good job outside of Texas,it will scare most politicians from ever thinking about "teaching the controversy".

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shalamabobbi
Member (Idle past 2850 days)
Posts: 397
Joined: 01-10-2009


Message 5 of 17 (504620)
03-31-2009 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Shield
03-21-2009 1:35 PM


Can we hope for arguments put forward for creationism that are more challenging than the following then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th7wr9KMu-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4
Maybe that is the motivation behind the approval..

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Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3293 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 6 of 17 (504621)
03-31-2009 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by shalamabobbi
03-31-2009 4:28 PM


Or we can find an in-the-closet case. Can we spell out homocreationist?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3102 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 7 of 17 (504626)
03-31-2009 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Taz
03-31-2009 4:53 PM


LOL, it is sad but true that my brother works for Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort at WOTM. I actually got in a heated argument with him a while back about the ridiculousness of Ray's bannana argument. I made the suggestion that they should at least have a paid scientist on the staff to screen their creationism ideas before making a mockery out of themselves. Unfortunately, he took offense to that. I have to tread on very thin ice with him concerning the whole evolution vs creationism bit (actually I avoid the subject all together) .

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

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Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4917 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 8 of 17 (504632)
03-31-2009 8:29 PM


I really find amusement any time creationists use food to "disprove" evolution since pretty much everything we eat from cows to wheat to bananas has been modified from it's wild type by artificial selection. I know science education in this country could be better, but the fact people are persuaded by these silly arguments makes me weep for the lack of proper history instruction in the classroom.

We have many intuitions in our life and the point is that many of these intuitions are wrong. The question is, are we going to test those intuitions?
-Dan Ariely

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-31-2009 9:38 PM Stagamancer has replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3102 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 9 of 17 (504633)
03-31-2009 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Stagamancer
03-31-2009 8:29 PM


I really find amusement any time creationists use food to "disprove" evolution since pretty much everything we eat from cows to wheat to bananas has been modified from it's wild type by artificial selection. I know science education in this country could be better, but the fact people are persuaded by these silly arguments makes me weep for the lack of proper history instruction in the classroom.
I place as much if not more blame on the parents than the schools at is the parents responsibility for the education of their child. If my daughter is not being taught at school correctly it is my civic duty to challenge the school/school board. If more parents would do this, instead of copping out and neglecting there child's education we would not be in the sorry mess to begin with.
If there was only one thing I can could teach my child, it would be to always seek to better themselves through self discipline and self-education.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 14 by Stagamancer, posted 04-01-2009 1:20 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1406 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 10 of 17 (504634)
03-31-2009 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by DevilsAdvocate
03-31-2009 9:38 PM


whoa
If more parents would do this, instead of copping out and neglecting there child's education we would not be in the sorry mess to begin with.
Isn't this just what the fundamentalist christians are doing? The problem is not just parent involvement, but informed educated parent involvement.
The plain fact is that most people know less than the teachers and many are willing to defer to them on this regard.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-31-2009 9:38 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3102 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 11 of 17 (504636)
03-31-2009 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by RAZD
03-31-2009 10:27 PM


Re: whoa
Isn't this just what the fundamentalist christians are doing? The problem is not just parent involvement, but informed educated parent involvement.
Yes, that is what I mean. Ignorance is self-perpetuating (from generation to generation) if the cycle is not broken by education. I also believe that being educated in history is as important as being educated in the sciences so we can learn as a species and not continuously repeating the same damn mistakes. So many people are trapped in there little religious short-sided worldview that they are doing irrevokable harm to our prodegy.
The scientific and historical ignorance in this country is appalling and I am afraid if we don't do something about it, that the US will become just another once technologically great civilization disolved to obscurity, in the annals of human evolution.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 12 of 17 (504644)
04-01-2009 5:18 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Taz
03-31-2009 4:53 PM


We've sorta been through this, but there are two big issues with the "bananas are the atheist's nightmare."
First, the "clearly they didn't do any research" issue: The banana that you get in the grocery store is a product of years of selective evolution. The banana you get in the store, for example, doesn't have any seeds: They've been bred out. You get new banana plants via cloning.
The current common banana variety is the Cavendish. The previous common variety was the Gros Michel, but it was wiped out by Panama disease. The entire variety? Yes...they're all clones because humans have evolved them for their eating properties, not their ability to reproduce. There is a current infestation in the Cavendish and it, too, appears that it may become wiped out.
Second, I don't know about his hand, but I've got more than five kinks in my grip. Starting at the tip of my index finger, there is the joint behind the nail, the joint in the middle of the finger, and the point right where the finger base meets the palm. That's 3.
Curving around to the thumb, I've got another kink where the lines on the palm of my hand reach the edge (the "head" line from palmistry), the base of the thumb, and the joint in the thumb. That's 3 more.
And of course, when I actually close my hand into a circle, there the spot where my thumb and forefinger meet, for another ridge.
That's 7. What kind of a mutant freak is he that only has 5?
Ooh, does that mean I can write a dissertation on how that's a sign of the Fall? The physical deformity of my hand is proof that I have been cursed.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3102 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 13 of 17 (504645)
04-01-2009 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Rrhain
04-01-2009 5:18 AM


First, the "clearly they didn't do any research" issue:
"The Way of the Master" which is Ray Comfort's Christian evangelism company has no science consultants and absolutely 0 real research (they just regurgitate and expound on Ken Ham-like creationist ideas). Normally they just stick to religious evangalism which I don't have any major beef with. However, when they attempt to critique and attack universally accepted science with unsubstantiated, unresearched, bogus, pseudoscience assertions as shown here, this is where they go wrong.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
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Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4917 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 14 of 17 (504680)
04-01-2009 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by DevilsAdvocate
03-31-2009 9:38 PM


I place as much if not more blame on the parents than the schools at is the parents responsibility for the education of their child. If my daughter is not being taught at school correctly it is my civic duty to challenge the school/school board. If more parents would do this, instead of copping out and neglecting there child's education we would not be in the sorry mess to begin with.
I agree completely. I suppose I should have just left off the "in the classroom" phrase from my post.

We have many intuitions in our life and the point is that many of these intuitions are wrong. The question is, are we going to test those intuitions?
-Dan Ariely

This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 736 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 15 of 17 (504685)
04-01-2009 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by DevilsAdvocate
03-31-2009 9:38 PM


I place as much if not more blame on the parents than the schools at is the parents responsibility for the education of their child.
Yup. And the following quote is from Kyleen Wright of the Texans for Life Coalition, testifying before our august House of Representatives' Public Education Committee yesterday evening. A bill supporting "abstinence plus" sex education as opposed to our current "abstinence only" was under discussion:
You offend parents far less by giving less information than (by) giving (teens) more.
And here Texas is in third place among the states in teen pregnancies. Ignorance ain't bliss.....

This message is a reply to:
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