Morality without god

What I said was it was my IMPRESSION that the incidence had increased, I didn't make a scientific statement of it, and I merely asked you if you agreed. You apparently don't but you misrepresented my statement so the whole thing got garbled.Christians don't kill people, Christians GET killed, it's our calling. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Are you sure you want to bring science into this? In my world, my fridge needs power to make things cold.But let's not mess about with non-sequiturs - there's no correlation between hot and cold, light and dark and good and evil.Good and evil don't exist outside our own definitions. A cat torturing a mouse is not evil, a man killing a mosquito is not evil, a man killing a chicken to eat is not evil, but a man torturing a chicken is quite possibly evil and a man killing many men without cause is definitely evil. The phrase works exactly the same in reverse and no amount of fallacious analogies prevent it.Evil is the source and the absence of evil is good.

Sorry for being corse but what the fucking fuck Faith!!!!How the bloody hell are homosexuals forcing anything on u? Last weekend were u forced to be Irish cause the Paddys day parade was on? Friday night I had a threesome does that force you to engage in group sex? My neighbour is allergic to nuts, does that force his preference on me?Everyone has the right and should have the freedom to Persuit of Happiness - u claim ur country is in a state a decline, if it is it is because people in the religious right are trying to take it off the course of freedom, secularism and mutual respect which it was formed under. U lectured me on my National History but how well do u know urs? Which country on Earth was the first to be formed with respect and freedom for everyone (particularly if you don't all agree on personal issues) at it's core?

I don't understand ur statement in that the law has changed but the circumstances have - that seems nonsensical but perhaps I just need clarificationAlso with all this talk of law I gotta point out good old Matt 5:18 again, anyone working today oughta be stoned to death guys!

Just an aside:I've been reading Fiath's comments on demon's (Demonology is a fav topic of mine) and I've reached some conclusions;- ur Demons seem to value intellect and rational thought- they r kinda kinky and think outside the box when it comes to sex-they r on the side of outsiders- they are multiculturalThere are of course a few things you haven't mentioned-have Demons killed as many people as the likes of the Angel of Death or God has? It probably isn't even possible, there'd be feck all people left!-did ur demon's create Heavy Metal???? Presumably this is also demonicYou know what I like your demon's a lot more than I like your god, if I believed any of it was true I know who I'd be siding with. I will admit I've already read the early parts of the bible objectively and had already decided that Lucifer was a more complex character than he is painted by Christians, a troubled antiHero along the lines of Macbeth etc. It's almost a shame I dont believe, I'd make a damn good Satanist.Edited by GrimSqueaker, : No reason given.

So why is homosexuality a sin punishable by death, if the homosexuals aren't acting of their own accord. Why does your just and loving god punish the people who are the victims of demons he lets run free?

So we have an interesting sort of changeless morality. It seems to me that anyone could come up with unalterable laws of this form. "It is always and eternally wrong for anyone to murder anyone, except me next Tuesday when I plan to murder Fred Jones, which is always and eternally the right thing to do. There are no exceptions to this immutable law, it will always be right for me to murder Fred Jones next Tuesday, and it will always be wrong for anyone else to murder anyone else. Let these words be graven in stone for all time. I'm glad I'm not one of those beastly relativists, they have no moral compass."

An interesting claim. Do Christians never commit any sins whatsoever, making them sinless, perfect, and in no need of a redeemer; or are there just some sins they never commit? If the latter, which ones? Though you yourself, I note, have been somewhat negligent in that respect.

This reveals a couple points:(1) You have admitted -- PRAISE GOD! -- your own knowledge on matters of biblically defined morality is incomplete. At last, a glimmer of humility. Keep up the good work.(2) As any atheist would reliably predict, there is reasonable disagreement among intelligent theists on the matter of picking up sticks on the Sabbath. Observant Jews do in fact still avoid this practice, along with turning on any electrical device, driving any self-powered vehicle, lighting any fire (even to smoke a cigarette), etc.That said, it's not entirely clear to me, in terms of biblical authority and exegesis, why those same Jews are not killing the homosexuals, adulterers and disrespectful children in their midst. Presumably, they have come to a consensus that obeying the biblical instructions on how to acquire, keep, inherit and beat slaves is something they should forego, in the interest of avoiding arrest and imprisonment under secular systems of law, and the same rationale may apply to imposing the death penalty on various behaviors as prescribed by Leviticus 20 - even though this prescription is attributed to the direct speech of God Himself.I actually wonder whether today's observant Jews might look at Leviticus as a case of someone in a distant, brutal past putting words into the mouth of their God - in effect, using a sock-puppet (and calling it "God") to give voice to the virulent pronouncements of a typical human bigot. This seems like the most likely explanation to me.Or maybe today's Jews have some other rationale for ignoring these things that have somehow become part of the canonical Christian Bible. Whatever. The point is: why should Christians give it any more credence or allegiance than Jews do? Why is Leviticus 20 still part of the biblical canon? What possible good does that do?

So... as various researchers - many of them faithful Christians - began (and continue) to assert that diseases like measles, small pox, bubonic plague, polio, etc, are spread by bacterial or viral infection, rather than by demons, this has actually been part of a strategy foisted on humanity by demons, intended to make us think that demons don't exist. Is that what you're saying?I ask because the common understanding among the original authors of the NT was that the various diseases were the work of demons, and that Christ was casting out demons when he reportedly healed the sick.Your stated preference for attributing undesirable consequences in our lives to demonic agency is clearly a bad strategy, and there is a clearly better alternative: look for natural causation, and address the natural causes. The NT authors, having had no access to objective knowledge about natural causation, make a very poor resource for addressing real-world problems.If you personally never arrive at that realization, please at least stay out of the way of those who are trying to improve the quality of life in general, including yours.Edited by Otto Tellick, : (changed "bacteria" to "bacterial or viral infection", just to be nit-picky)

Well gee Squeaker, I don't know, when you see Him you can ask Him. Yes there is really no allegory that works as good as the actual thing. The King of the universe created mankind and gave them free will, and the ability not to sin. There was only one thing He warned them not to do or they would die. The punishment for one sin is hell, but we rebelled and sinned. Sin came upon all humanity. And therefore we are all headed for hell. But God loved you so much that He sent His only begotten Son to pay the penalty for you. All you must do to escape hell is acknowledge that you are a sinner and repent and accept what was done on the cross as payment for your sins. You can continue to try and find your own way if you like, but there is no other way.

First off I didn't say he "killed" them. I said he warned them he was going to kick their tales. Most understand that to mean a beat down not a killing. There was a second off here but I decided you don't care to have an intelligent conversation and are only interested in stretching my examples beyond their intended use. So to go on is really pointless. Have a good one.

Not without interfering with your free will.

Of course He intervenes. Many times we read about His hand of providential protection over those who follow Him. What do you think the whole parting of the Red Sea was about. Elisha was traveling from Jericho to Bethel when a large group of young men verbally accosted him. 42 is a large number of people, and they were a organized group who had gone out to challenge Elisha. Their mockery implied a malicious intent. The phrase "go up bald head" was a reference to his predecessor Elijah who they knew Elisha claimed had gone up into heaven in a chariot of fire. They didn't believe it but did believe he was dead and they were insinuating that is what they wanted to happen to him. The insult was more of a threat than just an insult.

I see, and so do you need "power" to make things cold on the planets at the edge of the solar system as well, or is it just the inner planets? Yes, well I'm terribly sorry you haven't the ability to tell the difference between an illustration and a correlation. The "concept" of evil is like the "illustration" of light and dark and heat and cold.