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Author Topic:   Foundation of Everything
WebFeet
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 65 (71188)
12-05-2003 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by WebFeet
12-05-2003 10:30 AM


Re: Mass of a photon.
Here's the corrected figures
The range of mass for the photon is:-
5.0x10^-21 -> 2.66x10^-21

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 10:30 AM WebFeet has not replied

  
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 65 (71192)
12-05-2003 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by WebFeet
12-05-2003 10:30 AM


Re: Mass of a photon.
Fair enough.
Let me put my "automatic naysayer"'s hat on for a second.
I've just had a look at the site you linked to originally and it doesn't say anything about the thinking behind the Hooper-Luck triangle but instead asks me to download some software (which I'm too suspicious to do, I'm afraid). And I can't find anything else on the web on it. This sends my crank-dar tingling.
Can you provide a brief explanation of what the HLT is and why its so good?(+ maybe why this should not be dismissed as simple tricks and quackery?)
PE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 10:30 AM WebFeet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 11:47 AM Primordial Egg has replied

  
WebFeet
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 65 (71194)
12-05-2003 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Primordial Egg
12-05-2003 11:29 AM


Re: Mass of a photon.
The Hooper-Luck Triangle is the result of a great deal of research, most of it spent banging our heads against a brick-wall.
Everytime we tried to make sense of current physics theories, we came to a dead end or something that relied on a'Magic Number' to get the thing to work. Half of what we reseached made no sense whatsoever.
So we decided to take a different approach - if you can't break something down into its constituent parts, then start at first principles and try to find something that can be built up.
We came up with the Triangle, which, so far, nobody that has seen it has said that it doesn't work. Mostly they want to know where it came from and can they use it.
Hence, the software. The site you visited No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.gamert.co.uk was setup for the sole purpose of distributing the software, free to individuals, and providing a forum for people to exchange ideas.
If you're not sure about downloading the software, check the Info page, where you'll find a link to the help manual. Read it, and then decide. Here's the link
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.gamert.co.uk/HelpDocuments/index.html
There are no viruses or other tricks involved, although you shouldn't take my work for it - always make sure you've got proper virus protection.
The software is a straight forward physics application. One that you can customize through the use of templates to do most calculations.
I hope this answers your questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-05-2003 11:29 AM Primordial Egg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-05-2003 12:20 PM WebFeet has replied
 Message 20 by Eta_Carinae, posted 12-05-2003 12:50 PM WebFeet has replied

  
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 65 (71202)
12-05-2003 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by WebFeet
12-05-2003 11:47 AM


Re: Mass of a photon.
Webfeet,
If you're not sure about downloading the software, check the Info page, where you'll find a link to the help manual. Read it, and then decide. Here's the link
http://www.gamert.co.uk/HelpDocuments/index.html
Maybe you could take me through this screen?
Now bear in mind, that I know absolutely nothing about your product here.
To start with:
What do all the numbers represent (especially the 'Relationship' value)?
What exactly is meant by the initial triangle and results triangle?
More questions as I think of them.
PE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 11:47 AM WebFeet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 12:59 PM Primordial Egg has replied

  
Eta_Carinae
Member (Idle past 4375 days)
Posts: 547
From: US
Joined: 11-15-2003


Message 20 of 65 (71214)
12-05-2003 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by WebFeet
12-05-2003 11:47 AM


WebFeet
I wondered if this was your own product you were plugging.
Now I can only find a single web reference to it, on another forum.
Also the two names do not show up on any published physics journal I have checked thus far.
The documentation seems terrible - it says nothing about nothing seemingly.
Please elaborate what you are attempting to do with this.
I have a PhD in theoretical physics from CalTech so don't worry about keeping the explanation simple - I'll follow, trust me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 11:47 AM WebFeet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 1:28 PM Eta_Carinae has not replied

  
WebFeet
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 65 (71218)
12-05-2003 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Primordial Egg
12-05-2003 12:20 PM


Re: Mass of a photon.
The best place to start, apart from reading the manual, is to select the Graphical Output button, this will display another window with the values displayed graphically as 2 triangles - initial and result (should really have called them triangle 1 and triangle 2 because they are completely independant of each other). When the window is opened up initially - unless you've changed the default values, the triangles will be overlayed on each other - same values.
Put the mouse over either of the points T or D and hold down the left mouse button to drag the point. As you're doing this you will see the values in the main window updating.
Open up the Results Output and again drag the point, you will get the output line by line.
A simple one to start with is to grab D and move it left, you will see that the energy remains constant, mass decreases, but density increases - just as it should.
Once you've got the hang of this, enter a value into one of the fields, when you exit, by tab or selecting another field, the triangle will be recalculated, and redisplayed in the graphics window.
A good one to try is to select file->new, select Relative and find the velocity angle where Relativistic mass is double the original mass, read of the velocity and check against generally accepted figures. At the same time, check the new value of time, it should be twice what it was originally.
You can select the Templates menu at the top and load one of the predefined templates. When you load it, follow the instructions in the pop-up window.
Give it a go, you'll like it, I do.
As for 'Relationship' that is what this tool is all about. As to how we actually describe what it's doing, we're keeping that to ourselves for the time. I'm sure some people will figure it out - maybe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-05-2003 12:20 PM Primordial Egg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by helena, posted 12-05-2003 1:14 PM WebFeet has replied
 Message 25 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-05-2003 4:03 PM WebFeet has replied

  
helena 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5845 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 03-27-2008


Message 22 of 65 (71222)
12-05-2003 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by WebFeet
12-05-2003 12:59 PM


Re: Mass of a photon.
Is there any chance that you and Brad share some ancestors?
Could you please state what your triangle is, on what model it is based and what exactly it calculates?
You seem to be taking knowledge of the HLT for granted and I can assure you that you shouldn't. So if you would be so kind as to line out the general reasoning behing your theory. And don't worry, there's plenty of physicists around to understand you...
regards

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 12:59 PM WebFeet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 3:10 PM helena has not replied

  
WebFeet
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 65 (71225)
12-05-2003 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Eta_Carinae
12-05-2003 12:50 PM


Re: WebFeet
This is completely new, so new that the search engines have'nt even updated with details of the Gamert site yet and the ink is still wet on the web pages. Yes I am plugging my software, but where better.
As for previous publications, we have been trying for a considerable time to get the HLT published, one of the problems was the scope - everything ! So just at the point were we thought we would have this extremely useful Tool doing nothing forever, we decided to publish it in the form of an application.
Neither myself - the Hooper bit - nor my collegue Luck have published anything in the physics world before. Hence why you wont find any reference in any journals.
Sadly the documentation is lacking, although the principle is very simple. The whole Universe is based around Energy, and for such a complex structure to be stable, it must be based on a very simple set of rules.
The Conservation of Energy is the primary rule. All the other conservation laws depend on this.
With conservation of energy, any process must first and foremost adhere to this rule. This is true from micro to macro.
This then makes energy the basis for the HLT.
All that is important is energy and its relationships.
Everything can be built from these relationships.
To date we have not found a single application where this tool cannot be applied - that's throwing the gaunlet down.
Try it. Let me know what you think.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Eta_Carinae, posted 12-05-2003 12:50 PM Eta_Carinae has not replied

  
WebFeet
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 65 (71238)
12-05-2003 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by helena
12-05-2003 1:14 PM


Re: HLT
The Triangle is an abstract tool demonstrating the relationship between energy and mass.
As far as a model it is based on, there is none, well not that we know of, and believe me we've looked.
As to what it calculates, because of its abstract nature, it has no limitation of scope, so effectively anything you can think of to do with energy.
For example the previous posts (which I miscalculated initially) about the mass of a photon.
Or take it to the other extreme and you can determine that Ultraviolet light has a minimum escape radius within a blackhole (of 30 solar masses) of 78 km (first order approximation using Schwarzchild radius puts it at 88.4 km)
Use Ohm's Law to calculate the resistance in a system using current and voltage.
The general reasoning behind the triangle is simple, there are 2 rules.
Rule 1. Energy can neither be destroyed no created (Conservation Law)
Rule 2. If not, Rule 1 applies.
There are no Magic Number or smoke and mirrors.
Everything in the Universe is defined by its Energy. What happens to everything in the Universe depends on what happens to its Energy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by helena, posted 12-05-2003 1:14 PM helena has not replied

  
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 65 (71252)
12-05-2003 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by WebFeet
12-05-2003 12:59 PM


Re: Mass of a photon.
The best place to start, apart from reading the manual, is to select the Graphical Output button, this will display another window with the values displayed graphically as 2 triangles - initial and result (should really have called them triangle 1 and triangle 2 because they are completely independant of each other). When the window is opened up initially - unless you've changed the default values, the triangles will be overlayed on each other - same values.
Whoa.....slow down!
You see, my issue with this is that I've got no idea what you're talking about. I suspect the same is true for many other posters here.
I'd like to know what your triangle approach actually does, not what it doesn't do, nor what it isn't. You may have worked with the idea for years if not decades - I've no way of knowing, so you have to temper it for people who might be completely new. You're leaping right into the detail without explaining the big picture.
Granted it something to do with triangles, and conservation of energy. Beyond that, you haven't really told me any more.
So what exactly is the software?
What does it do?
How about a very simple example - practically, how could I use the program to derive, say, the law of conservation of momentum?
Its not just that I'm instantly sceptical here (although I am), but I can't understand why anyone should be interested in this product if its completely indecipherable except to its writers.
PE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 12:59 PM WebFeet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 4:51 PM Primordial Egg has replied

  
WebFeet
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 65 (71261)
12-05-2003 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Primordial Egg
12-05-2003 4:03 PM


What It Is
Ok, I'll try to slow it down.
Like you say, it may be perfectly obvious to the person that wrote it, but to everybody else it's not.
Open up both Graphics and Results windows by selecting the button on the bottom of the main screen.
Let's take a very simple example.
Boyle's Law
To best see the results, select the template menu from the top of the main screen and load up the Boyles-law template. You will see the column names in the Results window change.
For this example we're using Density in place of pressure.
Increase the mass from 5 units to 10 units. You will notice that the energy has increased from 5 to 10 units and the value of the Relationship has increased.
Also notice that the value for Density and Time has remained the same.
So from this example we can see that so while Density and Time remain constant, any increase in mass produces a proportional increase in energy.
You can also see the output in the Results window, where the volume, as you would expect has now doubled.
Now set the focus on Relationship. We want to alter the relationship between Energy and Mass, up until now we have had it at 1 to 1. We want the program to recalculate the relationship based on a new set of figures.
Reduce the mass from 10 back down to 5.
You will see that the value of the Relationship has changed, but energy has remained the same.
You should also notice that density has changed. The Results window shows that the value of the Density has doubled, and with it the volume has been reduced.
You halved the mass, doubled the density and reduced the volume by 3 quarters.
Because we allowed the Relationship to change, the Density was forced to change with it.
There you go, try it

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-05-2003 4:03 PM Primordial Egg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-05-2003 5:38 PM WebFeet has replied
 Message 30 by sidelined, posted 12-05-2003 10:21 PM WebFeet has replied

  
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 65 (71273)
12-05-2003 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by WebFeet
12-05-2003 4:51 PM


Dammit
Gamert has caused an error in KERNEL32DLL.
Gamert will now close.
If you continue to experience problems try restarting your computer
I suppose thats Windows ME for you.
Shame, as I was quite looking forward to trying it. If only to understand what on Earth you were talking about.
Unless anyone out there knows anything about computers....?
PE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 4:51 PM WebFeet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 5:50 PM Primordial Egg has not replied
 Message 29 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 7:57 PM Primordial Egg has replied

  
WebFeet
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 65 (71277)
12-05-2003 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Primordial Egg
12-05-2003 5:38 PM


Re: Dammit
We've tested it on NT,2000 and XP with no problems.
Unfortunately I don't have access to an ME machine - something for my list to Santa.
I'll have a look around and see if I can find the 'Please make this run on ME' flag.
It's a bit of a bind, but the HLT works just as well on paper.
Draw it out, unfortunately you'll have to do the maths yourself, but it ain't rocket science.
Use the figures I posted previously using a right angled triangle, plug them into a spreadsheet to calculate the angles and sides when you change the mass and take the tan of the angle opposite energy to give you the relative density/pressure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-05-2003 5:38 PM Primordial Egg has not replied

  
WebFeet
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 65 (71289)
12-05-2003 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Primordial Egg
12-05-2003 5:38 PM


WindowsME
Here's a link to a version of the executable compiled with the 'Please work for ME' flag set.
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.gamert.co.uk/downloads/WindowsME/Gamert.exe
Let me know it makes life any easier.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-05-2003 5:38 PM Primordial Egg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-06-2003 6:13 AM WebFeet has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 30 of 65 (71308)
12-05-2003 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by WebFeet
12-05-2003 4:51 PM


Re: What It Is
Webfeet
In post #26 you state
Increase the mass from 5 units to 10 units. You will notice that the energy has increased from 5 to 10 units and the value of the Relationship has increased.
Also notice that the value for Density and Time has remained the same.
Since density is mass/volume if you double the mass the density must become one-half if the volume remains the same.
Any thoughts on this?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by WebFeet, posted 12-05-2003 4:51 PM WebFeet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by WebFeet, posted 12-06-2003 12:09 AM sidelined has not replied

  
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