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Author | Topic: Evidence for Evolution: Whale evolution | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Hi AOKid,
I think if you look closely at the first cat, the legs are most likley not forming from the pelvis. Irrelevant. They are legs. That means they have nothing to do with these appendages that you are so sure aren't legs. If you want to claim that the whale appendages are not legs, I can't help but wonder what they actually are and why they don't show up in any other animal. Supernumerary limbs have nothing to do with anything here. Mutate and Survive
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Admin Director Posts: 13017 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 1.8 |
Any objections if I drop this into summation mode?
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Dredge Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Of all the nonsense served up by evolutionists, whale evolution is the most hilarious yarn yet - I love it!
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Of all the nonsense served up by evolutionists, whale evolution is the most hilarious yarn yet - I love it! Can you offer any evidence to support your claim?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Of all the nonsense served up by evolutionists, whale evolution is the most hilarious yarn yet - I love it! Thank you for sharing with us your precise and detailed analysis of the issue. It must have taken you many years to attain such a complete mastery of the facts, and yet you have managed to express all the relevant information concerning the morphology, genetics, embryology and fossil record of whales in a mere nineteen words, so that one must truly say that you are outstanding not only in your erudite grasp of your subject matter, but also in the concision with which you express your vast learning. Sir, I salute you.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
So, no follow-up?
People, note that this is his first and only post. Apparently he registered with the forum just for that.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
... still waiting.
Nothing? Nothing at all?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
quote: Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1045 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
Gigantism isn’t necessarily something that only occurred in the last 3 million years or so, says Monash University paleontologist Felix Marx. But what did change, as far as we can tell, is that all of the little ones suddenly start to disappear. You’ve got a whole range of whales that don’t even exist today. You’ve got all sorts of stuff that’s just a lot smallerlike, three, four, five meters. And about 3 million years ago or so, as far as we can tell, they all disappear. Is this supposed to be referring only to mysticetes? There are still a lot of three, four, five, metre whales.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
The opening message of this topic highlights a serious problem with artwork. Incredibly people still show pictures of Rhodocetus as a fully formed skeleton with a tail fluke. If you look in the following pictures in this thread, you will see they never found those tail vertebrae for Rhodocetus.
Yes, the transitional evidence will scream "evolution" if you turn that evidence into pictures of full skeletons people have drawn with the assumption of evolution in mind, but Phil Gingerich, the founder of Rhodocetus, himself now rejects that it had a tail fluke. Either way, if you believe it did or believe it didn't those pictures are very misleading. Ambulocetus is also not a full skeleton like shown in the diagram, I think they actually found something like 45% of Ambulocetus, and "add" the rest, by imagination. Conjecturally that is okay if you want to speculate an evolution of whales but like with all of the "transitionals by artwork" they tend to show a very distorted version of the actual facts. Here is the thread I discussed it, please see message number # 9, remember, I am not attacking evolution as such here, I am just attacking the use of art to mislead people into thinking these fully formed whale-like skeletons are factual, when they simply are not. Bot Verification Disclaimer: I'm okay with people saying, "well, this sure looks like it could be an evolution of whales" but I'm not okay with fake drawings of complete skeletons they've never actually ever found, which may well not have had tail flukes and a whale like evolutionary anatomy (or on the way there).
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Is this supposed to be referring only to mysticetes? There are still a lot of three, four, five, metre whales. The impression I got was that the Gigantism" occurred due to the environmental conditions of the later ice ages and that most of the smaller whales went extinct. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1045 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
The impression I got was that the Gigantism" occurred due to the environmental conditions of the later ice ages and that most of the smaller whales went extinct. Yes, but that's evidently not true, which was why I asked if he was actually talking about mysticetes in particular. I have answered my own question in the affirmative by finding some of his work.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1045 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
The opening message of this topic highlights a serious problem with artwork. Incredibly people still show pictures of Rhodocetus as a fully formed skeleton with a tail fluke. If you look in the following pictures in this thread, you will see they never found those tail vertebrae for Rhodocetus. Rodhocetus is pictured without a tail fluke in message 1. Now, you are right that it can be a bit misleading when someone pictures a full skeleton as a fossil without indication of which bits are actually known from fossils. That's why you sometimes see skeletal reconstructions like this:
with different shading used to differentiate between the bits known from fossils and the rest; which is the educated guess of the reconstructor. If you're complaining about artists reconstructions of fossils as living animals, then of course they have to include speculative elements. There's nothing dishonest about this - even the most complete fossil is not going to tell you how an animal looked in life. You have to fill in the gaps with speculation and conjecture; or it would not be possible to make any artist's impressions. Now, I do find it annoying that a lot of media presentation prefers the artist's impressions to pictures of the actual fossils; but that's not a problem with artwork - it's a problem of what the media thinks people would find more alluring. Incidentally, I'm not sure how relevant the terminal caudal vertebrae would be to whether Rodhocetus has a tail fluke. Whale vertebrae don't extend into the flukes. And Google images seems to suggest that the majority of artists reconstruct Rodhocetus without a fluke.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
The whale tale is one of the funniest yarns concocted by evolutionists: Some land-lubbing, vegetarian deer-like creature supposedly developed a taste for swimming in the ocean and devouring seafood. Its nose somehow ends up on top of its head and its legs somehow turn into flippers. I love it! ... except is reduces the noble pursuit of science to embarrassing quackery. Isn't it interesting what some people are willing to believe?
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Did you forget you already posted to this thread in Message 243? It has several responses, none of which you've replied to.
--Percy
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