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Author Topic:   update: freedom found, natural selection theory pushed aside
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 121 of 224 (480061)
08-31-2008 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Straggler
08-31-2008 5:32 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
Well it is plain that you have a science of good and evil, even it is denoting the absence of both as scientific fact. Regardless if its true or not that this (science) doctrine leads to your aversion to theories about freedom, it is just not allowed in science. So then it seems you have to drop it in this science thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Straggler, posted 08-31-2008 5:32 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Granny Magda, posted 08-31-2008 6:47 PM Syamsu has replied
 Message 125 by Straggler, posted 08-31-2008 6:48 PM Syamsu has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 122 of 224 (480064)
08-31-2008 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 6:26 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
According to Stragglers science these things are not capable of good and evil. So we are just discussung Stagglers science of good and evil in the science thread.
We are discussing the ability or otherwise of inanimate objects to make choices and decisions. According to you they can and do.
The ability to make choices and decisions is a prerequisite for making moral choices and thus for the ability to be good and evil (whatever subjectively good and evil may be). According to you inanimate objects can and do make such choices and can therefor be considered to be good and evil.
I wisely made no mention about my personal opinion of toothbrushes.
Very wise. Because you must be starting to sound ridiculous even to yourself?!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 6:26 PM Syamsu has not replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 123 of 224 (480065)
08-31-2008 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by dokukaeru
08-31-2008 5:02 PM


Re: Rubbish Syamsu
I already answered your questions. You reasoned there were alternatives, I said why the one alternative was realized is a subjective issue. The science part is just finding the decisions and the alternatives they are deciding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by dokukaeru, posted 08-31-2008 5:02 PM dokukaeru has not replied

Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 124 of 224 (480068)
08-31-2008 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 6:32 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
Well it is plain that you have a science of good and evil, even it is denoting the absence of both as scientific fact. Regardless if its true or not that this (science) doctrine leads to your aversion to theories about freedom, it is just not allowed in science. So then it seems you have to drop it in this science thread.
That's pretty rich Syamsu, since you were the one who first brought up good and evil, in Message 104. Now you say it is taboo. Make your mind up.
Allow me to explain to you what has been happening here. You have been talking nonsense, a number of people have called you on this, you have completely failed to substantiate your nonsense and now you are blaming everyone but yourself for your mistake. People are not telling you that anticipation theory is rubbish because of their innate hostility to the idea, but because just sounds like complete rubbish and you have failed to prove that it has any worth.
I hope that this makes things clearer for you.

Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 6:32 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 7:18 PM Granny Magda has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 125 of 224 (480069)
08-31-2008 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 6:32 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
Well it is plain that you have a science of good and evil, even it is denoting the absence of both as scientific fact.
No. Science makes clear that inanimate objects do not make decisions. In the absence of decisions terms like good and evil are quite obviously meaningless.
Regardless if its true or not that this (science) doctrine leads to your aversion to theories about freedom, it is just not allowed in science
My only aversion is to stupid theories.
Actually I am a firm believer in freedom. Of consious beings. Not toothbrushes though.
So then it seems you have to drop it in this science thread.
Dude you brought up the whole good and evil issue. I'll happily drop any more mention of good and evil in place of an in depth analysis of the ability of inanimate objects to make choices and decisions.
So - Do toothbrushes, in your opinion, make choices and decisions?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 6:32 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 7:13 PM Straggler has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 126 of 224 (480072)
08-31-2008 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Kapyong
08-31-2008 6:29 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
Welcome aboard.
Post 104 : I was just pointing out, for the hundredth time or so...
Post 107 : For the millionth time...
Post 109 : For the billionth and 1 time...
Yes but there is fairly important difference between repeatedly claiming to have answered questions and actually having done so.
So - Do you think toothbrushes make choices and decsions?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Kapyong, posted 08-31-2008 6:29 PM Kapyong has not replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 127 of 224 (480075)
08-31-2008 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Straggler
08-31-2008 6:48 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
Yes I do believe toothbrushes make decisions, that they anticipate their future. And thats because if toothbrushes didnt decide then you would have the even weirder situation that toothbrushes are same as light, that they are in a state of alternatives, called the wave state with light, and that a decider can decide their state for them. Its been established that small molecules dont decide their own state, just like light. So that is observation against toothbrushes deciding.
You should think more about the signifucance of freedom. If you have many balls on your computerscreen bouncing of each other, and one ball acts freely by your choice, your control, then all balls act according to your choice. So to say if freedom is real, then it is fundamental for everything in the universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Straggler, posted 08-31-2008 6:48 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by bluescat48, posted 08-31-2008 7:38 PM Syamsu has not replied
 Message 131 by dokukaeru, posted 08-31-2008 7:41 PM Syamsu has not replied
 Message 134 by Blue Jay, posted 08-31-2008 8:04 PM Syamsu has replied
 Message 138 by onifre, posted 08-31-2008 8:15 PM Syamsu has not replied
 Message 145 by Straggler, posted 09-01-2008 3:37 AM Syamsu has replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 128 of 224 (480077)
08-31-2008 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Granny Magda
08-31-2008 6:47 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
I brought up the good and evil bit because I know from experience that people who have some kind if science of good and evil have a hard time understanding and accepting theories about freedom. And you have to admit i established he did in fact have a science theory about good and evil, even if slight.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Granny Magda, posted 08-31-2008 6:47 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Granny Magda, posted 08-31-2008 7:39 PM Syamsu has replied
 Message 133 by dokukaeru, posted 08-31-2008 7:48 PM Syamsu has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 129 of 224 (480081)
08-31-2008 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 7:13 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
You should think more about the signifucance of freedom. If you have many balls on your computerscreen bouncing of each other, and one ball acts freely by your choice, your control, then all balls act according to your choice. So to say if freedom is real, then it is fundamental for everything in the universe.
So how does the ball have any freedom if I am calling the shots. It seems that the ball has no freedom at all, which is what has been said in earlier posts by various members. Inanimate objects have no freedom.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 7:13 PM Syamsu has not replied

Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 130 of 224 (480082)
08-31-2008 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 7:18 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
I brought up the good and evil bit because I know from experience that people who have some kind if science of good and evil have a hard time understanding and accepting theories about freedom.
What you know from experience is that almost no-one wants to buy this rubbish you're peddling. It's just that you would rather blame it on them than admit that anticipation theory is pseudo-scientific piffle.
And you have to admit i established he did in fact have a science theory about good and evil, even if slight.
All you have established is that Straggler doesn't think that toothbrushes are capable of evil. Congratulations. For your next trick, you might like to prove that I don't believe coffee cups are capable of benevolence.
Honestly, this is just silly. I know that creationists are desperate for anything that can be made to look as though it supports your views, but this just seems desperate.

Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 7:18 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 8:06 PM Granny Magda has not replied
 Message 141 by Coyote, posted 08-31-2008 8:46 PM Granny Magda has not replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 131 of 224 (480085)
08-31-2008 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 7:13 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
syamsu writes:
Yes I do believe toothbrushes make decisions, that they anticipate their future. And thats because if toothbrushes didnt decide then you would have the even weirder situation that toothbrushes are same as light, that they are in a state of alternatives, called the wave state with light, and that a decider can decide their state for them. Its been established that small molecules dont decide their own state, just like light. So that is observation against toothbrushes deciding.
The words you type have the freedom to become shear nonsense.
Any chance of a reply to Message 101 No? Of course, you have that freedom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 7:13 PM Syamsu has not replied

Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 132 of 224 (480089)
08-31-2008 7:46 PM


An Evil Toothbrush
Is this the kind of thing you mean Syamsu?

Mutate and Survive

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 133 of 224 (480090)
08-31-2008 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 7:18 PM


update: Freedom found.....in a song
Granny Magda writes:
Honestly, this is just silly. I know that creationists are desperate for anything that can be made to look as though it supports your views, but this just seems desperate.
Gives a whole new meaning to:
Kris Kristofferson in Bobby Mcgee writes:
Freedoms just another word for nothin left to lose, And nothin aint worth nothin but its free

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 7:18 PM Syamsu has not replied

Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2697 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 134 of 224 (480093)
08-31-2008 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 7:13 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
Hi, Syamsu.
Syamsu writes:
Yes I do believe toothbrushes make decisions, that they anticipate their future.
What decisions do these toothbrushes make?
When do they make these decisions?

-Bluejay
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 7:13 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 8:13 PM Blue Jay has replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 135 of 224 (480096)
08-31-2008 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Granny Magda
08-31-2008 7:39 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
Its a point of principle, and its an important principle, we dont make science about good and evil, and that includes the absence if benevolence in coffecups, as some kind of scientific fact. I suspect Straggler has much more of this kind of science, ive seen that all before. But ok, since he dropped it, we should simply accept the principle and proceed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Granny Magda, posted 08-31-2008 7:39 PM Granny Magda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by dokukaeru, posted 08-31-2008 8:14 PM Syamsu has replied

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