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Author | Topic: EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed - Science Under Attack | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Even before seeing Mod's post that included specific information about ICR's finances, it was obvious that ICR's claim to having a budget of only $650,000/year could not be accurate. The page you took the information from was written by Henry Morris, now deceased. That particular paragraph could only be true if written 20 or more years ago.
--Percy
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shalamabobbi Member (Idle past 2848 days) Posts: 397 Joined: |
Looks like wedgy then..
The article pulls up as though it is current. The date for the article is listed as "accessed Feb 27, 2009" but in different print "This article was originally published in July, 1981." The university in Dallas Texas shows an annual budget of $7 million with a faculty of 4 full time and a student body amounting to 50 approx. Date for this is Dec 16, 2007.
School: The institute runs its own graduate school that offers master’s of science education degrees. Its stated mission: to research, educate and communicate Truth involving the study and promotion of scientific creationism, Biblical creationism, and related fields. How in the hell did they get accreditation with that mission statement? So they're spitting out about 10 graduates per year.. Institute for Creation Research in Dallas wants to train future science teachers
ICR is Creation Research. Stein was looking for the Discovery Institute (I know, it is difficult to keep them straight sometimes)
yep the discovery institute was what I remembered from the documentary - located in Washington.I'll have to rewatch it to see if they mentioned the budgets. I don't remember anything along those lines. Looks like they had a budget of approx 4 million annual. Funded by Baptists who hoped they'd be able to disprove evolution. Guess some things can't be bought. Think Tank.. bit of an oxymoron. Edited by shalamabobbi, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 167 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
How in the hell did they get accreditation …? They didn't.
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shalamabobbi Member (Idle past 2848 days) Posts: 397 Joined: |
They didn't. quote: Sounds like they were given a green light for a number of years. But they've been found out, the wedge plan discovered, ID discovered to be the regrouping of creation science. So how is there now any worry that they can still be successful in their efforts? Will they now recast ID again? 'Teach the controversy' is going to find adherents. But I'd wager the vast majority of them will be people in transition from a lack of knowledge about evolution to becoming aware of all the current evidence. All that annual budget supposedly went into paying scientists to research creationism. What have they come up with? Polonium halos? Big whoop. I met one old lady, a neighbor, who found that one convincing, but again she was already in that camp of thought. What is really happening is that all the possible/apparent arguments against evolution are being taken up and disposed of one by one. They are in actuality proving it true by failing to be capable of proving it false. By fighting evolution they are advancing it's dissemination into the public mind.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 836 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
shalamabobbi writes: Sounds like they were given a green light for a number of years. Not now. From Institute for Creation Research - Wikipedia
quote: And if SACS and THECB has anything to do with it, I doubt ever. Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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shalamabobbi Member (Idle past 2848 days) Posts: 397 Joined: |
Hi Mod,
Just finished re-watching the documentary. When Stein is interviewing Bruce Chapman from the Discovery Institute he asks "when you go out and raise funds do you tell people, oh by the way we're going to get Jesus back into the classroom?". Then follows the denial that ID is a religious issue. The only other place where funding is mentioned follows shortly thereafter when interviewing Paul Nelson at Boila University with ties to the Discovery Institute. Stein asks him if he has ever gotten any money from Jerry Fawell or Pat Robertson with a little laughter, the point again being that ID is not a religious issue (per the documentary).The documentary focuses most of its sentiment on the concept of academic freedom, persecution of dissenting professors from Darwinism, and ending with how Darwinism was the basis of Hitler's mistakes and is still behind planned parenthood keeping undesirable low lifes from breeding within society by promoting abortions. The funding would not be considered an issue in American culture because of freedom of religion. No one would view that information in a negative light. There is no regulation of how people choose to throw away their money. The fact that the funding came/comes from Baptists would however disclose the fallacy that ID doesn't involve religion. What have they accomplished though with all the funds? Polonium halo studies and the like. Give them 10 times the funds and they would squander it all down the hole without much threat of overthrowing evolution in the classroom. One unfortunate result of Stein's interview with Dawkins is to polarize the audience by creating a false dichotomy between ToE and religion. This was likely intentional to focus the religious crowd to fight for ID.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Around here it isn't the Baptists as much as the Missouri Synod Lutherans. These are not like your classic easy going Garrison Keillor, Lake Woebegon lutherans. These Lutherans are bible literalists and strongly proclaim inerrancy.
The Bible is God's inerrant and infallible Word, in which He reveals His Law and His Gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ. It is the sole rule and norm for Christian doctrine. Missouri Synod Web Site
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Unfortunately the local newspaper does not archive letters so this will disappear from their site next week.
Link Here are some choice comments from the letter. I am posting the letter here also, so that there is some sort of permanent digital record.
It is worth noting that atheism is a type of religion totally dependent upon evolution as an undergirding doctrine. Christianity is not nearly as dependent upon ID or creation, in the sense that many Christians believe that evolution was God’s way of creating (theistic evolution). That is not my belief, and there are serious problems with that position, in my view, but the point is that there are Christian evolutionists, but there is not one atheistic creationist in existence! This would explain why atheists are fighting so hard to be rid of ID. It is said the COURTS have decided that ID is not science. That is true. But the Supreme Court also ruled 152 years ago in favor of slavery (Dred Scott Decision). Just because the court says it doesn’t make it right! Regarding Nazism and evolution, watch the movie and judge for yourself. Darwinism was not sufficient for the holocaust, says Berlinski, but it was necessary. Certainly Darwinism contributed to an earlier holocaust horror against Australian aborigines in the early 20th century (not mentioned in the movie). Unfortunately, I have been requested by my wife not to respond. In a small town a professional cannot afford to alienate any part of the population.
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
I wonder how many people here would be willing to step up to the plate to write one letter to your local newspaper, spaced out at the rate of one per week to keep things going.
I'll write one. Whoever else is willing to write a letter, post a note here and I'll put together a schedule. --Percy
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Here is link to the letters page. They do require a hard copy(no emails)and it has to be signed and a phone # so they can verify. It will be interesting to see if and what letters they publish.
Also if you do send a letter can you either leave a comment here or email me a copy. bfuente@gmail.com
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crawler30 Junior Member (Idle past 4776 days) Posts: 15 From: Florida Joined: |
I am not about to defend the film as far as its arguements because I have not seen it but I thought I would point out that it is completely incorrect to state that Richard M. Sternberg did not suffer ill effects from publishing the article in question. This is a completely misguided attempt at debunking the entire film because it does not agree with your beliefs. If you want more info. on Sternberg and what happened to him because of his beliefs you only need to google it. There is plenty of information available on the subject. BTW there is an article on wikipedia that is pretty short but explains the issue. Sternberg peer review controversy - Wikipedia
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fixed link by making "s" of "sternberg" upper-case (make "r" of "Richard" upper-case while I was at it. The Wiki error page said "Titles on Wikipedia are case sensitive except for the first character; please check alternate capitalizations and consider adding a redirect here to the correct title."
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2105 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Sternberg didn't get half the kicking around he deserved.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Percy Member Posts: 22388 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
crawler30 writes: ...it is completely incorrect to state that Richard M. Sternberg did not suffer ill effects from publishing the article in question. What were those ill effects? --Percy
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crawler30 Junior Member (Idle past 4776 days) Posts: 15 From: Florida Joined: |
did you try to read up on it? The article says he was discriminated against. There is also another article at http://www.evolutionnews.org/...use_government_reformsu.html which indicates that the accusation of discrimination was found to be credible by the Office of Special Council but that the OSC did not have jurisdiction to persecute the offense. Wheather or not you agree with the mans arguments everyone deserves the right to believe and say as they please without the fear of reprisal against them for it. Freedom of speach is a right we all enjoy and it really is not fair to be treated unfairly (especially at work) because of your beliefs.
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crawler30 Junior Member (Idle past 4776 days) Posts: 15 From: Florida Joined: |
your own personal beliefs s being different from others does not give you the right to "kick" people around. That is called discrimination, and is wrong no matter how you try to justify it.
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