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Author Topic:   The Bible's Flat Earth
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 151 of 473 (500004)
02-21-2009 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by thingamabob
02-21-2009 9:20 PM


Re: ball
But if Isaiah had said it was round like a ball he would have been wrong as the earth is not a sphere.
Nonsense. I'd be surprised if a discount-store basketball is even close to being as spherical as the Earth is - the polar diameter is 99.66% of the equatorial diameter for the planet. It's way too close to spherical for eyeball inspection to tell a difference.
But Earth doesn't look much like a frisbee.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by thingamabob, posted 02-21-2009 9:20 PM thingamabob has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by ICANT, posted 02-21-2009 10:23 PM Coragyps has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 152 of 473 (500005)
02-21-2009 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Coragyps
02-21-2009 9:56 PM


Re: Isaiah
Hi Coragyps,
Coragyps writes:
It is left as an exercise for the reader to decide whether these two quotes are harmonious.
You left out the part where the one sitting on the circle of the earth stretched out the heavens.
He could not be in this universe and stretch out the heavens. The first heaven being our Milky Way and the second heaven being the billions of galaxies.
He could spread them from within but He would have to be outside to stretch them out.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Coragyps, posted 02-21-2009 9:56 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 153 of 473 (500006)
02-21-2009 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Coragyps
02-21-2009 10:04 PM


Re: ball
Hi,
Coragyps writes:
the polar diameter is 99.66% of the equatorial diameter for the planet.
But they are not the same therefore it is not a sphere.
If I remember what I read it is supposed to become a sphere around 6013.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Coragyps, posted 02-21-2009 10:04 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Coragyps, posted 02-21-2009 10:45 PM ICANT has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 154 of 473 (500007)
02-21-2009 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by ICANT
02-21-2009 10:23 PM


Re: ball
But they are not the same therefore it is not a sphere.
Agreed. But more nearly a ball than a frisbee, right?
If I remember what I read it is supposed to become a sphere around 6013.
You 1) misremembered or 2) read some poor science fiction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by ICANT, posted 02-21-2009 10:23 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by ICANT, posted 02-22-2009 3:02 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 155 of 473 (500011)
02-21-2009 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by thingamabob
02-21-2009 9:20 PM


Re: ball
Gday
Here we go again.
thingamabob writes:
as the earth is not a sphere.
Nonsense.
It IS a sphere (as distinct from FLAT, the specific subject under discussion), it's just not a PERFECT sphere.
So what? Who said it was?
thingamabob writes:
Isaiah says in 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:"
Where does that verse say anything about the shape of the earth?
Right there in the text - "THE circle of THE earth."
You sound like Peg :
A sphere is not a sphere.
A circle is not a circle.
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
Kapyong

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by thingamabob, posted 02-21-2009 9:20 PM thingamabob has not replied

  
Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 156 of 473 (500014)
02-21-2009 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by ICANT
02-21-2009 9:40 PM


Re: Isaiah
Gday,
ICANT writes:
It could possibly be the circle the earth takes around the sun but there would still be a problem.
It could possibly be the circle the sun and the earth take around the Milky Way but there would still be a problem.
The only circle I can think of that would work would be the circle around the universe which would be the third heaven where God sits on His throne.
But it couldn't POSSIBLY be the circle of a flat disk earth, could it? As sceptics claim.
You don't even MENTION that possibility, even though it's been argued in this very thread.
In fact, you tell us you can't even THINK OF any such possibility!
In other words, you literally cannot even consider that the bible could be wrong.
Kapyong

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by ICANT, posted 02-21-2009 9:40 PM ICANT has not replied

  
shalamabobbi
Member (Idle past 2849 days)
Posts: 397
Joined: 01-10-2009


Message 157 of 473 (500015)
02-21-2009 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by ICANT
02-21-2009 9:40 PM


Re: Isaiah
I read your other post about the equator and if God was sitting on the equator and He saw a human they would not be the size of grasshoppers. So that would be out.
Actually when hangliding, seeing people about the size of grasshoppers is out for anything above about 500ft.
Maybe that tower of babel story included plans for a not so tall tower?
It could possibly be the circle the earth takes around the sun but there would still be a problem.
It could possibly be the circle the sun and the earth take around the Milky Way but there would still be a problem.
The only circle I can think of that would work would be the circle around the universe which would be the third heaven where God sits on His throne.
From there He could stretch out the heavens.
And that ties in so well with the grasshopper objection you raised earlier. Oh wait..
You left out the part where the one sitting on the circle of the earth stretched out the heavens.
He could not be in this universe and stretch out the heavens. The first heaven being our Milky Way and the second heaven being the billions of galaxies.
He could spread them from within but He would have to be outside to stretch them out.
I see the study of Newtonian mechanics has not been wasted on you.
If I remember what I read it is supposed to become a sphere around 6013.
Is that in consequence of the cosmological inflation?
Hi ICANT,
I see the opposition has called you in off the bench. Please don't let them down.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by ICANT, posted 02-21-2009 9:40 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 158 of 473 (500017)
02-22-2009 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by thingamabob
02-21-2009 9:35 AM


thing writes:
The land was all in one place on the third day and man was created on the sixth day.
So why wasn't man there?
When did the land mass get changed that he could not wittness it in one place?
im not a creationist so i dont adhere to the literal 6 days of creation.
the hebrew word translated to 'day' in english represents a 'period of time'
it cannot be a literal 24 hours for several reasons that have been discussed in other threads but is off topic here so i wont go into it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by thingamabob, posted 02-21-2009 9:35 AM thingamabob has not replied

  
Black
Member (Idle past 5183 days)
Posts: 77
Joined: 11-28-2008


Message 159 of 473 (500020)
02-22-2009 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Granny Magda
02-14-2009 1:28 PM


BUMP
Edited by Black, : edit
Edited by Black, : edit
Edited by Black, : edit

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Granny Magda, posted 02-14-2009 1:28 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Huntard, posted 02-22-2009 3:53 AM Black has replied
 Message 163 by Granny Magda, posted 02-22-2009 10:02 AM Black has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 160 of 473 (500025)
02-22-2009 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Black
02-22-2009 1:27 AM


Hello Black, welcome to EvC. (what the hell is that thing in your avatar anyway? Looks creepy )
Black writes:
1 Chronicles 16:30
Tremble before Him, all the earth; Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved.
Doesn't say anything about the shape of the Earth. It does say however the Earth does not move. Something which is also false. The same goes for your other verses. However, as you noted, in other translations, it is different. How are we to determine which is the correct one? Oh! Look! We have a thread just for that purpose! See here
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Did the kingdoms of the earth, at that time, cover the whole spherical world as we know it? Perhaps this is better interpreted that, Jesus was shown all the kingdoms of the world at that time.
I think the Maya would have something to say about that.
While the verses can be said to make sense more if you interpret "the whole world" as "the known world" there is nothing in the text that indicates it should be interpreted in that way.
Edited by Huntard, : Spellings

I hunt for the truth
What you can do in my country and get away with:
Softdrugs? Legal!
Legal drinking age? 16!
Birth control (the pill)? Free!
Gay marriage? Legal!
Abortion? Legal!
Euthanasia? Legal!
Age of consent? 16 (14 if you have the parents permission)!
Yep, only one way down for us!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Black, posted 02-22-2009 1:27 AM Black has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Black, posted 02-22-2009 8:21 AM Huntard has not replied

  
Black
Member (Idle past 5183 days)
Posts: 77
Joined: 11-28-2008


Message 161 of 473 (500029)
02-22-2009 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Huntard
02-22-2009 3:53 AM


BUMP
Edited by Black, : edit

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Huntard, posted 02-22-2009 3:53 AM Huntard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by lyx2no, posted 02-22-2009 8:31 AM Black has not replied
 Message 194 by Theodoric, posted 02-23-2009 10:55 PM Black has replied

  
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 162 of 473 (500030)
02-22-2009 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by Black
02-22-2009 8:21 AM


Don't be a Jack offall Trades
I have stated my argument. Since I don't feel like circle jerking I will leave it at that.
With that attitude you'll never become a master debater.

Genesis 2
17 But of the ponderosa pine, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou shinniest thereof thou shalt sorely learn of thy nakedness.
18 And we all live happily ever after.

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 Message 161 by Black, posted 02-22-2009 8:21 AM Black has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 163 of 473 (500037)
02-22-2009 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Black
02-22-2009 1:27 AM


Hello Black and welcome to EvC.
quote:
Prove that "this kind of cosmology was, at the very least, a profound influence on the Bible".
No. Can't be done. You can't prove what the authors thought one way or another. All that either of us can do is producing a convincing argument one way or another. I have presented the argument for a flat Earth Bible. I find it convincing. You are free to hold whatever opinion you wish.
quote:
Flat-Earth? {List of verses}
I choose the NASB version of the verses you listed, above, and I noticed a different context for them and it does not imply any specific dimension/s for Earth.
No, and I never said that they did. Except for the last one, they address the earth's immobility. As I have explained already, I am trying to build up a big picture here. To understand the flat earth of the Hebrews it is necessary to understand other aspects of their cosmology, such as the immobile Earth and geocentricity.
Further, some aspects of Bible cosmology are themselves evidence for a flat earth Bible. The domed firmament, for example, makes absolutely no sense when discussing a sphere, but it makes perfect sense on a flat disc. The four winds make no sense on a sphere, but are internally logical when considered on a flat Earth.
quote:
Did the kingdoms of the earth, at that time, cover the whole spherical world as we know it?
Yes. There were kingdoms in the Americas at the time. This passage cannot be literally true except on a flat Earth.
quote:
The below verses are better interpreted as all the earth "known" at that time.
How do you know that they are "better" when interpreted that way? They might have been intended to describe the literal whole Earth. Just because they seem less erroneous when interpreted that way does not mean that the interpretation is any closer to the original intent.
You are making the mistake of trying to shoehorn the text into a modern world-view, a view that is entirely anachronistic.
quote:
Job 38:13-14
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, And the wicked be shaken out of it?
It is changed like clay {under} the seal; And they stand forth like a garment.
Actually this is useless information if one is trying to hypothesis that some of the authors in the Bible implied that the earth is flat.
No, it is totally relevant. First, it describes the "ends of the earth" ("skirts" in the KJV). A sphere has no ends that God might grasp. A flat Earth fits much better with this text, giving the impression of God shaking the Earth like a blanket.
The clay seal reference is also quite telling. It describes the earth as being changed in a way that is like the stamping of clay under a seal. That is a reference to the Bronze Age practice of stamping clay under seals, as is shown in this picture;
There is no way that this makes sense on a spherical Earth. The author would have been quite capable of describing God as "rolling up" the Earth or some such. The obvious implication is that the earth is basically flat, like a clay tablet, with mountains and other landscape features being equivalent to the letters.
It is also worth noting that these two verses come together, providing a stronger case that the author(s) thought the earth flat.
Mutate and Survive

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Black, posted 02-22-2009 1:27 AM Black has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Buzsaw, posted 02-22-2009 5:37 PM Granny Magda has replied
 Message 178 by Black, posted 02-23-2009 4:05 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 164 of 473 (500066)
02-22-2009 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Coragyps
02-21-2009 10:45 PM


Re: ball
Hi Coragyps,
Coragyps writes:
Agreed. But more nearly a ball than a frisbee, right?
Agreed.
Coragyps writes:
You 1) misremembered or 2) read some poor science fiction.
Actually it was a misread. I got to quit reading charts into the wee hours of the morning.
As the earth slows the pole diameter is getting larger.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Coragyps, posted 02-21-2009 10:45 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 165 of 473 (500077)
02-22-2009 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Granny Magda
02-22-2009 10:02 AM


GM writes:
The four winds make no sense on a sphere, but are internally logical when considered on a flat Earth.
What? The four winds are in today; the Easterlies, the Westerlies, The Northerlies and the Southerlies. You tried this with the sunrise and sunset. You insist on exacting things on the Bible that you don't exact on ourselves today.
No, Granny. LOL. That some individuals like you and even some of the ancients who read the Bible have interpreted it as flat earthly ideology does not establish that it was written as a flat earth record.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Granny Magda, posted 02-22-2009 10:02 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by shalamabobbi, posted 02-23-2009 12:14 AM Buzsaw has not replied
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