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Author | Topic: The Great Depression No One Talks About | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Well Taq, you do have tact, I'll certainly say that.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Money circulates. The more money the poor have, the more they spend, the more is collected in taxes, the more money the merchants have, the more they spend, the more is collected in taxes.....
Where will the money come from to help the poor? Phat writes:
That's why I don't believe in taxing the rich. Once they have the money, it's too hard to get it back. We have to prevent them from getting rich.
It wont come from the rich. They will make sure of that. Phat writes:
You're not arguing. You're asserting. You claim that the poor will come up to meet me, but I am arguing that the money I now am scarely able to save for my retirement will get taken from me through higher taxes ... But if the poor are making more money and paying more taxes, why would YOU be paying more taxes? Why wouldn't you be paying LESS taxes?
Phat writes:
What's so bad about that?
You dont mention that the poor and myself will then be in the same class. Phat writes:
You don't have a point. They may well have come up a couple of notches, but I will have dropped a notch or two. See my point?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
i suppose it all works in theory....but im wary of a globalist agenda. i dont trust people who dont trust God.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Everybody doing the right thing is not a "globalist agenda".
....but im wary of a globalist agenda. Phat writes:
But it's the ones who DO trust God - e.g. the televangelists and the apologists - who can't be trusted. i dont trust people who dont trust God."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: While wary of many of the televangelists and a good half of the Christians, I am not inclined to mistrust Christian apologetics. It intuitively makes sense to me, and rings true in my inner Spirit. Your Critical Thinking and evidence backed amalgamated Jesus Gantry, the whole "pick a God" spinning wheel, the admonition to throw God away and simply do the message, and the universe being essentially created out of nothing is what I do not trust. But it's the ones who DO trust God - e.g. the televangelists and the apologists - who can't be trusted. I am intuitive. Take conspiracy videos on YouTube. I reject 95% of them because they make extraordinary claims that are based on no testable foundation. IF, on the other hand, the commentator has a reasonably logical argument, I pay more attention and if the topic is one I am concerned about, I watch the video. Like this one.
It has basic observational truths in it, and I see no reason to question it more than I have. I likely will vote for Biden this year. This despite the fact that many of the charismatic Christians vilify the agenda. My decision was arrived at entirely through prayer and meditation. It goes against the mainstream church, but I don't care---I listen to God and not popular Christian opinion. I will say this much though. We are in store for some tough times. Edited by Phat, : wrong video"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Then why are you afraid to discuss them?
... I am not inclined to mistrust Christian apologetics. Phat writes:
And yet most of what you post here is extraordinary claims that are based on no testable foundation.
I am intuitive. Take conspiracy videos on YouTube. I reject 95% of them because they make extraordinary claims that are based on no testable foundation. Phat writes:
That's your basic problem. You should never stop questioning. ... I see no reason to question it more than I have."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: Then why are you afraid to discuss them?(the apologists) I have two apologists whom I trust and like.
Dr.John Lennox Vince Vitale I doubt if anyone will find any dirt on them."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So bring their arguments here and discuss them in your own words. I doubt if anyone will find any dirt on them."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Dr.John Lennox has a plethora of material which would be classified as Apologetic. One such article which I found of his was this one:
Stephen Hawking and God in which he challenges Hawking's basic pronouncement that "the laws of physics, not the will of God, provide the real explanation as to how life on earth came into being. " Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow(Caltech physicist) wrote a book called The Grand Design which Dr. Lennox was challenging. Hawking basically was quoted as saying Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going.(...) and " because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing. Lennox provided rational responses to these basic claims. Dr. Lennox is one of the few people who could even hope to follow Dr. Hawking's thought process, so in regards to defending the Christian Worldview from secular scientists who attempt to add atheism and philosophy to their theories, he is well qualified. He also challenges another well known atheist, Peter Atkins: quote:I dont fully understand the argument, but am in favor of Dr. Lennox defense in general. (and why wouldn't I be? ) "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: I dont fully understand the argument, but am in favor of Dr. Lennox defense in general. (and why wouldn't I be?) If you can't even tell us what these 'arguments' are, how can we discuss them? Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Basics Phat, basics.
There is evidence that the Universe exists. There is no evidence of any creator.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Tell us what the responses are.
Lennox provided rational responses to these basic claims. Phat writes:
Then you have no business proclaiming it rational. I dont fully understand the argument...."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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Given that Lennox attacks Hawking for an argument that Hawking does not make explicitly or even implicitly in the quoted material the article seems to be the usual attempt to pretend intellectual superiority by sacrificing intellectual honesty. I guess it’s not surprising that the original was published in the Daily Mail.
Needless to say, I am not impressed by Lennox.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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PaulK writes: Needless to say, I am not impressed by Lennox. I just watched a debate with him and Dawkins and Christian promo of him 'debunking' Hawking and Krauss. The first was just a rehash of all familiar arguments which are too boring to go into, but the second was him talking as a mathematician - or at least at first. After a few minutes it became pretty clear that he hadn't a clue what either of them where actually saying. He didn't understand the difference between mathematical/cosmological definitions of nothing and the layman's understanding of nothing and got into that populist ridicule mode. Really disappointing that he's prepared to let himself down like that.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Send me a link of the same debate that you watched. I never figured that any of you would agree with me regarding his arguments...but it almost seems as if you guys are on another planet from myself. Collectively, none of you (PaulK, Tangle,ringo) see any need for God to exist and are thus not as biased as I am going in to these arguments. The reason that I provided an article versus a video (though I find videos much easier to absorb) is due to ringo having no way of watching videos in the library where he frequents.
I have no written material from Vince Vitale, however, and thus can only share an audio podcast. I like Vince because he is philosophical rather than a scriptural literalist, which wouldn't impress you anyway.
Dr.Vince Vitale Does Jesus Have A Savior Complex?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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