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Author Topic:   Non-scientific Christ centric Genesis
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 1 of 12 (566778)
06-27-2010 9:53 AM


I propose to start a thread on the symbolism and typology in Genesis which I sincerely believe conserns Christ of the New Testament.
There have been plenty of debates on the age of the earth and whether Genesis is confirmed or negated by science.
This discussion will not be another debate on the science questions of Genesis. If permitted I will point out the accumalated symbolism that I believe refect the mind of God concerning Christ, salvation, and the eternal purpose of God.
So where's there room for debate ? How well can I substantiate the typology and symbolism that I maintain is in Genesis ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Flyer75, posted 06-28-2010 4:58 PM jaywill has replied

  
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Message 2 of 12 (566850)
06-28-2010 8:50 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Non-scientific Christ centric Genesis thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Flyer75
Member (Idle past 2422 days)
Posts: 242
From: Dayton, OH
Joined: 02-15-2010


Message 3 of 12 (566928)
06-28-2010 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jaywill
06-27-2010 9:53 AM


Jaywill,
I'm looking forward to your thoughts on this. I'm a little confused as to what you will be getting at though. Guess I will wait and see, then respond/discuss.
Take care

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by jaywill, posted 06-27-2010 9:53 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by jaywill, posted 06-29-2010 11:39 PM Flyer75 has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 4 of 12 (567181)
06-29-2010 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Flyer75
06-28-2010 4:58 PM


I am use to frequenting the Bible Study room. But the moderator has chosen to place this in the Faith and Belief setion.
I think most of the discussions of Genesis have been arguments over the science of biblical statements. That is does Genesis harmonize or not with the current level of scienctific knowledge about the universe's and life's origins and development.
I will not be getting into the science of early Genesis. I will try to demonstrate instead that typology and symbolism and shadows in Genesis point to Christ and His salvation.
Let me begin with some thought that in the most basic sense God's salvation is to cause His divine life to touch and infuse man's created life. That is a union between the uncreated life of the Divine Person with the created life of the creature of His creation.
Divine life and its effect on the created life of man is symbolized in many places in early Genesis. There is a Life which is uncreated, divine, eternal, which is the life of the Triune God of the Bible. God's purpose is that the created life of man would receive the uncreated divine life of the Triune God.
I will show resurrection of Christ is implied in Genesis. I will try to show that regeneration with the life of God into the sinner's life is shown in Genesis. I will show the Trinity in Genesis and the operation of the Trinity to produce the New Jerusalem which is the climax of the Bible, is also symbolized in Genesis.
I will not talk about the science of Genesis. I will defend the symbolism of Genesis as I believe it reveals God's purpose in creation and salvation in Christ.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Flyer75, posted 06-28-2010 4:58 PM Flyer75 has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 5 of 12 (567186)
06-30-2010 12:17 AM


In the first two verses of Genesis we see working against darkness to bring in light. The earth was waste and void and God the Spirit hovered over this situation and said "Let there be light".
Waste and void, I feel, is not a benigh situation but one signifying confusion, lifelessness, death, and chaos. This touches on the spiritual condition of the natural man as we come into this world.
We may not recognize that we are in such a spiritual situation until we have something and Someone to make a contrast. We all feel that we are okay and doing just fine. But the Bible reveals that though our creation is marvelous, we arrive in the darkness and ruin of alienation from God. We are sinful and separated from God, not knowing where we are or where we came from - ie. in the dark spiritually.
There is a man who claimed "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in darkness but shall have the light of life" (John 8:12)
Notice the phrase "the LIGHT of LIFE". The light is the klight in a man as a result of touching and receiving the divine life of God which is embodied in Christ. The life of God in Christ is the light that man needs to walk in this world.
Again John links the light and the divine life of God in John 1:4,5 and 9:
"In Him [the Logos - Christ] was life, and the life was the light of men.
And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it." (John 1:4,5)
I think the Apostle John has before him the book of Genesis. The typology of Genesis, I believe, he is alluding to. The Son of God has something unique - the life of God. And this life of God in the Son of God is for man to be the LIGHT of men.
Man's darkness cannot overcome this light. Man's spiritual death can be conquered by the entrance of this life of God into man. This uncreated divine life is embodied in the man Jesus Christ. He is has the LIFE of God. And this LIFE is the LIGHT of men who come to Him.
"This was the true light which , coming into the world, enlightens every man." (John 1:9)
The incarnation of Christ is the coming into the world of the true light which enlightens every man. And the reference, I think, is based on the symbolism of Genesis 1:2.
"But the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light; and there was light. And God saw the light that the light was good, and God separated the light from the darknes, and God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day." (Genesis 1:2-5)
The deeper significance of this is the entrance of God's life into the spiritual being of man through Christ the light of the world. I think John references Genesis this way.
Now I will demonstrate Paul references Genesis this way as well:
"Because the God who said, Out of darkness light shall shine, is the One who shined in our hearts to illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." ( 2 Cor. 4:6)
I think Paul likewise has Genesis before him. Man as a sinner coming into the world needs the knowledge of the glory of God. That knowledge of the glorious expression of God is in a man, in the face of Jesus Christ the Son of God.
The face of Jesus conveys to man the glory of God that man may obtain that knowledge and come OUT of spiritual darkness of not knowing it. It is needed for God to command this light to shine in man's heart. Just as God commanded "Let there be light" in Genesis, God must command that the light of the glory of God in the Person of Christ, in His face and in His human living, would shine into our hearts.
We cannot create the light. God must command the light to shine in our hearts.
The link between Genesis and the new covenant salvation is seen again. Man, unaware of the glory of God in Christ, is in darkness. Receiving the Gospel of Christ is receiving the command for the light of God's glorious expression to shine within our hearts.
The deeper significance of Genesis 1 Day # 1 is that God must shine Christ into our hearts. This is the beginning of God imparting His divine life into man for the fulfillment of His eternal purpose and for man's salvation from alienation from God.

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 6 of 12 (569091)
07-20-2010 9:01 AM


The Resurrection and the Dry Land - Day #3
Life is very important in Genesis. And natural life is often used by God to picture or symbol the uncreated divine life.
Here is an instance when I think this is so. It is in the third day when the dry land emerges from underneath the water. No life is mentioned prior to the third day. After the rising of the land there is the mention of living things.
There is no question in my mind that the Spirit of God had in mind the resurrection of Christ on the third day as the initiation of divine life within redeemed people. For Peter says "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has REGENERATED us unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." (1 Pet. 1:3)
God has caused the believers in Christ to be born anew, regenerated with a divine life being dispensed into them, THROUGH the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. The rising of the dry land on the third day symbolizes the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
And after this rising of the land, which signifies Christ, life is first mentioned:
"And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas; and God saw that it was good.
And God said, Let the earth sprout grass, herbs yeilding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit according to their kind with their seed inthem upon the earth, and it was so.
And the earth brought forth grass, herbs yeilding seed according to their kind, and trees bearing fruit with their seed in them according to their kind; and God saw that it was good." (Gen. 1:10-12)
On the third day the dry land appears out from beneath the deep waters. And life springs forth. Because Christ is the center and circumference of the whole divine revelation of the Bible, this must be a symbol of the resurrection of Christ and the growth of Christ as life in His people. They are regenerated through His resurrection from the dead.
"I am the resurrection and the life" (John 11:25)
That is He is the uncreated and divine ZOE life of God Himself. Through His resurrection from the dead God can dispense that eternal life into those who believe into the risen Christ.
But how do I know that the sea, the water there, symbolizes death ? I strong clue is in the book of Revelation when it says that in the new heaven and new earth there shall be no more sea:
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.
And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband ... and death will be no more." (Rev. 21:1-2,3c,4b)
The absence of death is portrayed as the sea being no more. The presence of eternal life is seen in the "city", the holy city, New Jerusalem. Because she is a city of eternal life she is a Bride and Wife to match the God of eternal life.
He is the God of divine life. And His city is His counterpart of billion or more people with eternal life. In other words God is living in them and they are one with God.
This oneness began when they were all regenerated through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. And this is hinted at in the dry land coming up out of the sea which will one day be no more, even as death will be no more.

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by iano, posted 07-20-2010 10:27 AM jaywill has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 7 of 12 (569112)
07-20-2010 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jaywill
07-20-2010 9:01 AM


Re: The Resurrection and the Dry Land - Day #3
jaywill writes:
This oneness began when they were all regenerated through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. And this is hinted at in the dry land coming up out of the sea which will one day be no more, even as death will be no more.
I'm right in assuming that there is no treasure this world could offer which would convince you to trade in the wonders of the next?
Great thread..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jaywill, posted 07-20-2010 9:01 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by jaywill, posted 07-20-2010 10:16 PM iano has not replied
 Message 10 by Dawn Bertot, posted 07-22-2010 4:13 PM iano has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 8 of 12 (569216)
07-20-2010 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by iano
07-20-2010 10:27 AM


Re: The Resurrection and the Dry Land - Day #3
I'm right in assuming that there is no treasure this world could offer which would convince you to trade in the wonders of the next?
You would be right in assuming that there is no treasure this world could offer which is more valuable then the enjoyment of Christ in THIS world or the next.
The next is of course out of the question. But there is nothing that can compare with or compete with Christ even in this present age.
Paul counted all his pedigree and all his worldly attainments as dung compare to the present day "excellency of the knowledge of Christ" his Lord. And his only desire was to gain more Christ.
" But what things were gains to me, these I have counted as loss on account of Christ. But moreover I also count all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, on account of whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ and be found in Him ..." (Phil. 3:7-9a)
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by iano, posted 07-20-2010 10:27 AM iano has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 9 of 12 (569441)
07-21-2010 8:20 PM


Life and Consciousness
What follows life being generated from the dry land on the third day is a graduated scale of life consciousness. Remember that the center of the Bible is Christ. And Christ is the divine and eternal life of God.
This divine life is to be dispensed into man so that God may live in man. What follows the dry generating life are degrees of life leading from the lowest to the highest.
This is not on a scale of our modern biology. But it is nonetheless on a scale which is not at all unaccurate. The plant life on is taken as the lowest life. This is a life without consciousness.
The plant life will not understand any human speech and has no emotion. The grass and trees will not react to human communication. The Bible puts for this first life as that being on the lowest scale, life without any consciousness.
When we receive Christ into us, Jesus appeared out of the death water within us. Something of dry land emerged out from under the death that swarmed throughout our being. The sinner is saved but initially the sense of the divine is low. Some people have a dramatic regeneration. But not all do.
To some people the day they receive Christ into them they may not sense very much immediately. This is like the plant life which came about on the third day. It is on the lowest level of consciousness.
Even with the plant life in Genesis though, there are three levels: grass, the lowest plant life; the herbs which yeld seeds, a higher level, and the fruit trees, an even higher level.
The graduating scale will culminate in man made in the image of God. But at first the plant life signifies the initiation and low level of life and life consciousness. Even with this low level there are three stages ascending.
What is being conveyed is the ascending consciousness of life. And this has to do with God growing in man, encreasing his consciousness more and more of the divine. And generally it also may show that Christ is the highest life and all other lives are below Him.
Either way, on day three we have the beginning of a ascending ladder of life. We have the base of a ascending pyramid structure of life whose pinnacle climaxes with man being created in the image of God. The only thing higher than man created in the image of God is God Himself. And that is signified in the second chapter when man is placed before the tree of life.
But the practical lesson here is that when we receive Christ in resurrection into our being we should continue to feed upon Him. And the divine life within will grow and our consciousness of the divine encreases.
We should compare Genesis 1:11-13 with Mark 4:8 and Hosea 14:5-7.
Mark 4:8 - "And others [seeds] fell into the good earth and yeilded fruit, coming up and growing; and one bore thirtyfold, and one sixtyfold, and one a hundredfold."
Hosea 14:5-7 - "I will be like the dew to Israel; He will bud like the lily and will send forth his roots like the trees of Lebanon. His shoots will go forth; And his splendor will be like that of the olive tree, and his fragrance, like that of the trees of Lebanon.
Those who sit under his shade will return; They will revive like grain and will bud like the vine; His renown will be like to wine of Lebanon."
In both the NT and the OT God uses the growing of plants to symbolize His encrease in man or His developing blessing over Israel. There is a beginning, a sprouting, a growing, a spreading, and a maturing.
There is also the growing unto feeding. God's life growing in man is for the encreased feeding of man's spiritual hunger more and more. If we read Genesis 1:29-30 we will see that God gave the herbs and the fruit trees to man for his food. Then, God gave the grass to the beasts and to the cattle for their food.
The initiation of life is for the growth of life. And the growth of life is for feeding. And life is also for multiplication and producing seed.
What I would like you to be impressed with is that from the resurrection of God causes the born again people to receive divine life on the lowest level. But feeding upon this new life the divine life grows. The scale of growth encreases more and more and will consumate in a man who can fulfill the eternal purpose of God.
In a real sense man is the soil within which the Triune God desires to plant Himself for His growth in man for a full expression of a divinized God-man.

  
Dawn Bertot
Member
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 10 of 12 (569643)
07-22-2010 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by iano
07-20-2010 10:27 AM


Re: The Resurrection and the Dry Land - Day #3
I'm right in assuming that there is no treasure this world could offer which would convince you to trade in the wonders of the next?
I said at an earlier date he was here to explicate and bring to light exact meanings, teachings and purposes out of the Word.
Atheist, believer and everything inbetween would do well to pay close attention.
My guess IANO is that you have this same gift but you need to talk down to most of us so we can understand you simply.
Please proceed
EAM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by iano, posted 07-20-2010 10:27 AM iano has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 11 of 12 (570665)
07-28-2010 8:59 AM


In Genesis one we see graduating degrees of life from lower to higher to the highest life on earth, man. We also see graduating degrees of consciousness with grass being on the low end and man being on the high end.
We also see a gradual development of the face for expression. The fish do not have any neck and not much of a face. The birds have a little more of a neck with a face. The cattle have a more developed face. Man, as the final creation of life, has a well defined neck, head, and expressive face.
I think the concept of life on a graduated scale to finally arrive at that which expresses the divine God, is the key here. The scheme is evident to me even it is not exhaustive according to modern standards of biology.
God is showing us that life is on a scale. At at the top is man who God creates in His own image. Man is lastly created to express God and represent God over His creation.
Man's creation is special. After Gpd created the cattle, the beasts, and the creeping things on the first part of the sixth day, there seems to be a pause. God first convenes a kind of council for this last creation of man. God says "And God said, Let us make man ..." (Gen. 1:26).
This is something like a council. God is one; yet the pronoun is "us". The mysterious God has a life which is one and not limited. God speaks of "Let us". In light of the rest of the Scripture this must indicate the triuneness of God. If the Bible had said here "let Me ..." I would not have such a thought. But the phrase "Let us make" means let us have fellowship.
This phrase "Let us make ..." I cannot see as refering to angels. I take it to refer to God alone. If so there is a hint that God's eternal and unlimited multi-une life is intimately related to the existence of humans. God is this way in relation to His plan to make man in His image.
More will be said about this latter. After God created all the previous forms of life He seems to pause for a special council. Then He creates as a triune (or at least a multi-une) God, man in His image (verse 27):
"And God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." .
It does not say God created man in "Their" image but in "His own image". So it is mysterious. It sets man apart from all the other created lives. And this stage of creation also reveals something mysterious and special about the Creator. His divine and eternal life is very mysterious and unlimited. He is one yet He speaks of 'Let Us ...".
This mystery was not related to the creation of any other previous animals. When it comes to the man made in the image of God and according to the likeness of God, this mystery is revealed. God councils among God and says "Let Us". And the following verse says that God created man "in His own image".
Latter I will explain how Christ is revealed in these passages.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Dawn Bertot, posted 07-28-2010 3:35 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 12 of 12 (570746)
07-28-2010 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by jaywill
07-28-2010 8:59 AM


This mystery was not related to the creation of any other previous animals. When it comes to the man made in the image of God and according to the likeness of God, this mystery is revealed. God councils among God and says "Let Us". And the following verse says that God created man "in His own image".
That is a very good point, in connection with those two prhases and pretty much wraps up any misgivings I had earlier about it maybe being, the heavenly council.
The phrases are used interchangably, much like the words Chruch and kingdom in matthew 16, so there can really be no mistake as to who it is refering to
Good point
EAM
Edited by EMA, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by jaywill, posted 07-28-2010 8:59 AM jaywill has not replied

  
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