Extraterrestrial life and God.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"On a personal note I think he's the greatest wrestler ever. He's better than Lou Thesz, Gorgeous George -- you name it."-The Hulkster on Nature Boy Ric Flair

I felt I addressed this in my post. I understand that theistic evolutionist has an answer to this and that's why I clarified that. I was referring in evolution rant about those who just claim a "random" beginning of life, whether from a Big Bang or a spark of energy into a puddle of soup. I know your position is somewhat of an ID/evolution so I know how you can fit the theory into a theistic evolution concept but that's not what I was referring to. Sorry if I wasn't clear but I thought I was. I personally feel these questions are relevant. God made man in his image. Nothing else was made in his image. So, if there is ET life out there, these questions would be very much relevant to a Christian. That is one reason why I don't believe in evolution, not the ONLY reason. And again, I wasn't referring to any belief in theistic evolution.As far as your last long paragraph goes, I feel I addressed those also.
Point 1 - I was not referring to theistic evolution. Or ID.
Point 2 - I clarified at the end that, yes, there could be life out there but we had not discovered ANY form of life thus far. BUT, I did state it doesn't mean there isn't life out there.
Point 3 - IF we got here through the Big Bang, without ID or creator, again, that's what I was referring to...then it was the perfect one in a billion (random number and no pun intended) shot that it occurred. Maybe there's another "perfect" planet out there somewhere with the exact location in reference to a star for heat and energy, but we haven't found it yet.I think you misunderstood what I was saying in most of my post. I was referring to the random big bang evolutionist who believes this just all "happened", without any outside designer......

Hah, good thing you didn't call me an ID/evolution to my face, because I would have punched you and then I'd probably be arrested for assaulting a police officer I'm an evolutionist, as far as the science goes. I don't know where or how God was involved in the creation process (how could I know?), but I believe He is ultimately in charge (and that's a faith position). I resent the ID movement for trying to make the science fit their beliefs and being dishonest about it. But I'll forgive you this once. But let's be fair to the other side. I've never heard an atheist here claim that the universe appeared "randomly", or that life's emergence was utterly "random". They may not believe in an intelligent Creator, but they do believe in a universe that behaves according to certain laws. Laws that happen to be favourable for the development of stars, planets, and life. Some suggest that the universe could be one in a multitude of other universes, each behaving differently, and that it's inevitable that living things like us would appear in one of the universes that allows our existence and ponder the probability of it all.We have to do our best to accurately understand the positions of our opponents, or we will end up fighting strawmen. The universe isn't entirely "random", and neither we, nor atheists make that claim. (They can correct me if I've misrepresented their position). How do you know nothing else was made in His image? And again, why is it relevant to us? I don't care whether Jesus died for extra terrestrials. I don't care if ET is sinful or understands the concept of sin. I don't care if ETs have an afterlife. I don't care whether ET is spiritual or not. It doesn't matter. And even if I did care, God still wouldn't have to tell me.
Heck, I don't know whether Jesus died for the Neanderthals. Would they have had original sin even? See, there's a question closer to Earth, and the Bible doesn't provide us with the answer. Still, Neanderthals existed. If you want, feel free to start a thread about your other reasons and we can discuss them there. I still think the fact that we haven't yet found ETs in our immediate vicinity has no bearing on whether the TOE is truth or not. Au contraire. We have found several candidates for ET life. Several extra-solar planets fall within the habitable zone of their stars, including Gliese 581d. The fact that we won't be getting there in our lifetime to actually see if there is life doesn't change the fact that life could possibly exist there.
Then there's our solar system. The jury's still out on whether there's life on Mars deep down in the martian soil. It certainly isn't impossible. Many extremophilic (extreme loving) life-forms from earth could survive in the martian climate. Then there's the oceans of Europa that some speculate could be home to life. Life has adapted to some pretty harsh environments on earth, that there's no reason to believe it can't exist in similar harsh conditions elsewhere.Respectfully,-MeldinoorEdited by Meldinoor, : Changed "Titan" to "Europa"... Wrong moon. Oops.

Terribly sorry for lumping you in the ID category. I guess I was confused as to your position. My bad. And it's only assault on a police officer if I identify myself as one out of uniform before you slug away, otherwise you'd get away with simple assault.....ha!Yes, another good thread would be reasons why I don't believe in evolution, as this one wandered off into (my apologies), but at this point, I'm terribly under prepared and equally overwhelmed thus far on this board, as you can tell...lol....so I'll save my thread starting days for a later date.As far as the ET debate that's been going, I'm just going to have to say we agree to disagree on certain points. My position was swayed slightly in this discussion that I do agree that if alien life forms (intelligent or animal) were found, it would create a biblical problem for the Christian.Take care

I think you're doing well so far. In my experience many (but definitely not all) creationists come here only to spout their opinion and vent their resentment against evolutionists, and not to learn.* So far you seem generally interested in other points of view, and I suspect that's why your member rating is relatively high. (Sadly, creationists often get underrated here, but there's supposedly a new rating system on the way that should eliminate that problem)
Keep it up bro. Okeydokey.Respectfully,-Meldinoor*There are examples of this behaviour on all sides of the debate.

Hi Flyer75, It truly is amazing. I agree.However, I also think - (I guess selfishly I kinda like this one better) - that it's more amazing that sentient beings can recognize the awesomeness of this existence. I think it's amazing that we can ask questions, be curious, investigate and study our environment, both earthly and celestial. I think you would agree, this too is fkn' awesome!You mention you don't believe in evolution, but I suspect by the way you generalized things (and if I'm wrong I apologize) that you don't have a good knowledge of what biological evolution, and more specifically the Theory of Evolution, actually exlplains? Again, if I'm wrong, my apologies. But you seem like a smart guy, reasonable and willing to learn, so I hope you stick around this site and check out the Biological Evolution threads where very intelligent guys who are very educated in biology pretty much teach the subject. Cause I think you'll be impressed with what they'll teach you (I've experienced this first hand) and I suspect that you'll end up agreeing with what the actual theory explains.Also, for Big Bang, check out some older topics in the Cosmology thread. I think you'll eventually learn it pretty well and agree here as well. The only difference with a theist who accepts the theories in science and an atheist, usually, is that the theist believes God began the Big Bang. Every thing else following that: sun formation, galaxy formation, planet formation, emergence of life, the evolvement of organisms, etc...both the theist and the atheist agree that science is the best, and only, explanation. Most will also agree that it is the only explanation needed because God is simply a matter of faith and cannot be empirically evidenced.- Oni

I think the best way to think is to use math, and any evidence that fits the the math.We know science/math is 99% sure that light has been traveling for 13.7 billion years.This marks a visible range,. 13.7 x 2 x pi = 86 billion light year circle.our visible range marks a massive area. 86 billion years in one revolution, but light it self has only been traveling for 13.7If we look to the edge, we see no stars,. the light coming from them has not reached us yet.if we put this in perspective , Our own sun is only 5 billion years old, so any life at a greater distance cant see our sun yet. our sun is 1/3 the age of the universe or,. better said 1/3 the age of light as we know it.we can allso use the math in detail to estimate the average age of planets,. this age is about 6.8 billion years old, our planet is 4.54b and some of the older ones is around 8.3Since life as we think we know it, needs a planet to grow we can assume that life could not be older then the estimated average planet. will say 8 billion years.lets factor earths life cycle into this math, 3 billion years for simple life to build into complex life and 0.5 billion to build advanced life.we would need to minus this 3.5 off of the average planet age of 6.8 this would be 3.3 billion years for the average age of life in the universe.now lets assume 3 billion years is the time life need to build into complex life,.. this would leave the average age of advanced life to be 300 million years old.300 million years is much much older then humans , and this would be the average.. there is no number I can work off to find the average life with the ability to travel at light speed..so lets just use the 300 million years and the ability to travel at light speed,.. we have one galaxy that is 2.5 million ly away and the next is a cluster at 60-70 million.so life cant see other life more then 300 million light years away.. and here is the most amazing part of this math,. 300 mly distance would be 300 million years in the past, so it promotes a massive problem, and life cant see anything in the present at great distance. so to make the present observable life need to explore things much closer then this,. and the conclusion is any life at all,.. has never left there galaxy.I would urge anyone to try this math out,. in terms of life it self,. the universe is vary vary young still,. The universe could be chalk full of life but vary rare to have more then one type in a galaxy. All life is blind and there is not a reasonable amount of time passed yet for life to have explored anything besides there own galaxy..All life right now,. is blind and alone... the universe is young and I'm sure we all have our own idea of a god..I think there is a god, and its a "she" its mother nature. I do not think religion has anything to do with anything.. if you think we had been made in gods image,. then your right,. we look like nature.

At least the faith of Hindus will not suufer. In fact such a proof will vindicate their belief in extr terrestrial intelligence.

well, given that the faithful even now hold people who believe firmly that the earth is flat, or that the sun revolves around the earth (and who go to ludicrous lengths to "prove" it) I'm quite certain there will be people who would* think it's a gubberment plot ta tayk ar djoobs
* run around with their fingers in their ears going "lalalalaaa i cant hear you"
* twist and turn something in the bible and proclaim they already knew it, and that the bible is still the ultimate science book in the entire universemy fondest wish is that it would burst the bubble of self-delusion that surrounds many a faith-head.besides, we already found life on mars...