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Author | Topic: Is it time to consider compulsory vaccinations? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dogmafood Member (Idle past 376 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
We were having a discussion here and my wife pointed out that the IMR and VR rates for Oregon and Mississippi seemed to indicate a connection between the 2. With Oregon having the highest refusal rates and the lowest IMR and Miss with the reverse.
I referred to someone's previous example of global warming and pirates to show that things that look connected are not always connected. I made the graph to see if there was a trend. I then realized that I don't really know what would qualify as a trend beyond the visual appearance of the graph (which can be easily changed) and was asking how you figure out if something is statistically significant. I then wondered if failing to prove a connection is actually proof that there is not a connection. In other words, if there were a connection wouldn't it be much more evident.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Incorrect. The "*sigh*" and the "*sigh again*" were both links. You responded to both of those posts, Faith. Why didn't you click on the links? Obviously because I didn't see them, and obviously because he hid them in such a way it made them hard to see. Normally one tries to highlight links so they won't be missed. Dr. A has a penchant for making things as difficult as possible, such as by making cryptic comments without explanation as well as hiding his links. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well, this appears to be nonsense. Lots of crankish websites say so, but I can find no evidence for it; and to become an official whistleblower you have to file a formal complaint, here, alleging retaliation/discrimination by your employer. I would have no reason to doubt a statement that someone had received whistleblower status, and nothing you've said proves he didn't, but it doesn't really matter. You are simply putting up a smokescreen here by making a big deal out of a side point. Thompson was recorded without his knowledge and didn't seek publicity for his remorse about participating in the research fraud, or whistleblower status or any of it. That doesn't change the fact that he did tell Hooker about the fraud (parts of the recording are given in the film and in the video at the last link I posted), and he expressed deep remorse about his participation in it, and that's the important thing here which you seem to be determined to obscure. Nevertheless he seems unwilling to accuse the CDC of fraudulent tactics, wants to emphasize the importance of vaccination and so on. A man suffering from moral conflict it seems. But again, the important part is his admission of fraud in eliminating data that would have shown a high risk of autism in black children vaccinated before a certain age, and he clearly is remorseful over his participation in that fraud. In the film he is asked if he had anything to do with the 1999 research headed by Thomas Verstraeten* that I reported on earlier, in Message 827, that went through so many versions before they considered it politically safe to publish it, and it was interesting that he laughed and said no and what a circus that was, "a total circus." A tacit admission that such tactics are common in the CDC research world wouldn't you say? Not funny though since it allowed them to lie about the very high relative risk of autism they found in their initial study that could have changed policy or at least warned the public of the dangers involved. ===ABE: * HERE'S A GOOGLE PAGE ON HIM In the film this study is discussed starting about 38:30. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
That is why things like this are left to the professionals.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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JonF Member (Idle past 196 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Daily Caller. Wow. Now there's a trustworthy reference.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Typical ad hominem, interested only in obscuring information aren't you?
I gave other references as well.
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JonF Member (Idle past 196 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
The dose given was well below the toxic dosage. It was way beyond what is given in vaccine, but it still wasn't a toxic dose.
10 mg/kg is on the order of a lethal dose for a healthy person. I still haven't seen the paper... if I PM an address will you send it? If not, how was cause of death determined?
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JonF Member (Idle past 196 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Typical ad hominem, interested only in obscuring information aren't you?
Known wacko sites are not good sources.
I gave other references as well.
Yes, in later messages. It will take time for me to track them down and evaluate them. It would be easier if you gave actual citations. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined:
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It is pretty clear that you are, yet again, totally wrong. It only took a minute with google to find enough to satisfy myself (but never you, not never, ever) that this is another utterly bogus claim.
I don't know why people bother.
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JonF Member (Idle past 196 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Obviously because I didn't see them, and obviously because he hid them in such a way it made them hard to see. Normally one tries to highlight links so they won't be missed.
Links are highlighted automatically, and the links were highlighted. In one case the entire message was the link. I saw immediately that they were links because they were highlighted as links.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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Bliyaal Member (Idle past 2396 days) Posts: 171 From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada Joined:
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Everyone except you saw them as links at first glance. Maybe you just didn't want to see them.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Just to make absolutely sure, I bought access to the full texts of both papers. I'd rather I'd been wrong, at least that way I'd have had the satisfaction of learning something for my money. So, first up we have Smithburn et al, "Meningoccic Meningitis: A Clinical Study of One Hundred and Forty-Four Cases". This was the team that performed the original research. The figure cited (22 patients, all dead) appears nowhere in the paper. However, they turned over some of their data to Powell & Jamieson, for use in their paper "Merthiolate as a Germicide". Here in full is what Powell & Jamieson have to say about Smithburn's data:
Toxicity in man. Merthiolate has been injected intravenously into 22 persons in doses up to 50 cubic centimeters of 1 per cent solution. As many as five intravenous doses, or a total of 180 cubic centimeters of 1 per cent Merthiolate, have been given to one individual (see table 7). These large doses did not produce any anaphylactoid or shock symptoms. Neither did these quantities in the repeated doses bring about any demonstrable later toxic effects. The toleration of such intravenous doses indicates a very low order of toxicity of Merthiolate for man. This information has been supplied through the kindness of Dr. K. C. Smithburn of Indianapolis who has had occasion to use Merthiolate in a clinical way. Dr. Smithburn stated that in these cases "beneficial effect of the drug was not definitely proven. It did not appear however to have any deleterious action when used in rather large doses intravenously when all the drug entered the vein." Your innocent trust in the research is touching, but I've lost my innocence with respect to such reports.
That is, no grave consequences other than the fact that seven out of 22 of Smithburn’s patients died within one day after receiving the thimerosal. Only one patient made it to day 62 before succumbing. The logic is, apparently, that because table 7 records that patient B.H. went 62 days after the injection without any symptoms of mercury poisoning, therefore she must have died of mercury poisoning on day 63! This is pure fantasy, unsupported by anything in the papers; and if any anti-vaxxers have any sources except these papers and their fertile, febrile imaginations, they don't bother to cite them. Yes, it appears there is no way to know for sure what caused the death of B.H. I'm cynical enough by now of course to doubt that these patients had no symptoms of mercury poisoning but apparently you take it all straight. You would like us to consider that perhaps others of the 22 who were given Thimerosal, in an unusually high dose, didn't even die at all, but just the mention that one of them lasted 62 days rather strongly implies that none of the rest made it even that far. So the conclusion that all 22 died isn't at all unreasonable, especially given other information about the effects of Thimerosal, even that it was rejected as a preservative for serums given to dogs, which is reported in the film, backed up by a document. It's a little hard to accept that a high dose of the stuff would be tolerated by very sick people better than by dogs, but the claim of no toxic effect whatever is what they want us to believe.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
WHAT is an "utterly bogus claim?" The man confessed to fraud, what is it you are denying?
You really need to show what you are talking about. This habit of making cryptic remarks that can't be tracked down is not acceptable debate. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I didn't see the links, sorry.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes I saw your screen shot already and that's why I went back to find the links. Nevertheless I had not seen them earlier.
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