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Author Topic:   Why prefer the Biblical creation account over those of other religions?
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 146 (575837)
08-21-2010 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by archaeologist
08-21-2010 3:26 AM


Re: Tu quoque (one that isn't fallacious)
archaeologist writes:
Nij writes:
that your entire religion is based on a book with only tangential connection to history, and largely full of myth;
first off, you cannot prove it to be a myth, you just want it to be one. people have been saying this for millenia and not one of them has ever produce the evidence that demonstrates that false accusation as fact. if it were a myth, then there would be real evidence and we would not be having this discussion.
Once again you post untruths. You have been given evidence that absolutely show that the Biblical Flood is nothing but a myth yet you simply deny the truth and repeat falsehoods.
archaeologist writes:
Nij writes:
that when those myths are tested by rational people including a huge number of people who believe the same book just as much as you do they are invariably found to be untrue regardless of what prejudice may have been involved;
how can you test historical events? they are gone, done, over with? any event repeating those events today are false for they are not the true events and lack the orignal conditions toproduce them thus any finding against them would be false.
You can't really be that stupid. Of course historical events can be tested. Are you alive? If so your very existence is conclusive evidence of a historical even, in fact of many historical events. Your existence shows with a high degree of confidence (unless there is a bastard in your lineage) that your great great great great grandfathers screwed your great great great great grandmothers.
Granted there is the possibility that one or more, maybe even all of the grandmothers got knocked up by someone who was not their husband but we can say with a VERY high degree of confidence that at the very last, each of those grandmothers got laid.
Historical events leave evidence.
If either of the Biblical Flood myths were true, all living humans, all the land animals and all the birds as well as all plants growing on land would show evidence in their genes of that event, a bottleneck signature.
The signature is not there.
The Flood is refuted.
We will continue going over this until you understand that the Biblical Flood never happened.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 32 of 146 (575859)
08-21-2010 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Nij
08-20-2010 11:04 PM


Re: To everybody else...
We bend over backwards here to let creos have a few extra yards as they often don't hang around this site too long otherwise.
Toys, prams etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Nij, posted 08-20-2010 11:04 PM Nij has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by archaeologist, posted 08-24-2010 4:41 AM Larni has replied

  
archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 146 (576423)
08-24-2010 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Larni
08-21-2010 12:44 PM


Re: To everybody else...
there is no reason to hang out in this forum or website to long. the secularists are very dishonest, think they are an authority when they are not, and practice deceitful discussion tactics.
they lie about the flood and other biblical events as being discredited or proven wrong and close their minds to the truth so it becmes pointless to discuss here with anyone, even theminute few good posters as the discussion is often interuppted by the moronic who just do not have a clue.
NOW in answer to the thread question: we prefer the Biblical account over other religion's simply because it is the truth. all other accounts are distorted copies fromthe biblical ones and reflect the religious mindset of the people who created them as they drew further and further away from God and the truth as led by satan and his minions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Larni, posted 08-21-2010 12:44 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Nij, posted 08-24-2010 8:42 AM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 35 by jar, posted 08-24-2010 10:40 AM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 36 by bluescat48, posted 08-24-2010 11:12 AM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 37 by Larni, posted 08-24-2010 11:12 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
Nij
Member (Idle past 4911 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


(3)
Message 34 of 146 (576479)
08-24-2010 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by archaeologist
08-24-2010 4:41 AM


Re: To everybody else...
there is no reason to hang out in this forum or website to long. the secularists are very dishonest, think they are an authority when they are not, and practice deceitful discussion tactics.
The entire point of these fora is to "understand through discussion". That normally involves actually presenting evidence and not immediately shouting "liar!" when somebody shows that you are wrong. You either provide further evidence to rebut them, or you concede the point. You never do either.
Secondly, a great proportion of the people on this site are or were professionals, professors, doctorates... Experts all, of the highest kind. They never claim to be authority of any kind, but they acknowledge the authority of reality from which they and thousands of other derive their work.
Third, "deceitful debate tactics" are, in all objective honesty, the trademark of the creationist. Things like fake evidence, dodging the question, personal attack, bending the rules: much of what you do, in fact. Call this my "secular Satanist evolutionist denial" if you must, but just remember: you're the common denominator to all the problems surrounding you.
they lie about the flood and other biblical events as being discredited or proven wrong and close their minds to the truth so it becmes pointless to discuss here with anyone, even the minute few good posters as the discussion is often interuppted by the moronic who just do not have a clue.
Elsewhere I provided you with links directing to threads explicitly discussing the Genesis myths, Teh Fludde, the age of the earth and Jesus' existence. In all of these threads, overwhelming evidence is provided to suggest the Bible is not entirely right, if not entirely wrong.
Further, as scientists these people are the most open-minded you could get. Their jobs depend on being open-minded, since at any time new evidence could emerge to completely alter any ideas they have. Not changing means getting left behind.
So, if you had evidence, new reliable definitive evidence, you should have presented it in those threads. And yes, you would have been attacked, but that is how science works. An idea must be tested before it can be accepted. If your evidence fails, then you must provide more evidence or demonstrate that they are wrong about their rebuttal using more than "dishonest!" or "secular!" or "evil!".
NOW in answer to the thread question: we prefer the Biblical account over other religion's simply because it is the truth. all other accounts are distorted copies fromthe biblical ones and reflect the religious mindset of the people who created them as they drew further and further away from God and the truth as led by satan and his minions.
And here is your greatest problem: dogma. You firmly believe this so much that nothing could ever convince you of its wrongness. You blind yourself to the possibility of it being wrong, even before the question is asked.
There are hundreds of other accounts, a huge number of which existed well before the creation accounts were written. The majority of the rest bear utterly zero resemblance to the Bible, and were developed in cultures that never knew the Bible existed until European expansionism - they can be in no way built off it, let alone distorted copies.
Lastly, you have to demonstrate that it really is them being led by Satan and not you; for all you know, it is Satan wearing a mask of the god you worship; for all you know, the Bible was written by Satan; for all you know, Satan is the one true god. Just as different people have different opinions of other people, so too do they have different opinions about what is truth, and so do they have different things to place their faith in.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason, you just can't grasp that notion: that you might indeed be wrong.
On the other hand, it's something that everybody else here acknowledges and tries to fix by either being right or by changing their ideas so that they are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by archaeologist, posted 08-24-2010 4:41 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 146 (576509)
08-24-2010 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by archaeologist
08-24-2010 4:41 AM


Re: To everybody else...
archaeologist writes:
NOW in answer to the thread question: we prefer the Biblical account over other religion's simply because it is the truth.
And where is the evidence that it is the truth? How do you explain the fact that the order of creation in the different stories is contradictory, the methods are different and even the gods described are different?
AbE:
archaeologist writes:
they lie about the flood and other biblical events as being discredited or proven wrong and close their minds to the truth so it becmes pointless to discuss here with anyone, even theminute few good posters as the discussion is often interuppted by the moronic who just do not have a clue.
Exactly where is there an example of lying about the Flood or other Biblical events?
Are you making the claim that one of the versions of the flood story found in Genesis is factual? If so, is it the tale in Genesis 6 or the tale in Genesis 7?
archaeologist writes:
all other accounts are distorted copies fromthe biblical ones and reflect the religious mindset of the people who created them as they drew further and further away from God and the truth as led by satan and his minions.
And where is your evidence that supports that assertion? How do you explain away the fact that there are creation myths that are even older than the Biblical creation myths?
Edited by jar, : Finish the reply.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by archaeologist, posted 08-24-2010 4:41 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 36 of 146 (576515)
08-24-2010 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by archaeologist
08-24-2010 4:41 AM


Re: To everybody else...
NOW in answer to the thread question: we prefer the Biblical account over other religion's simply because it is the truth.
What is your source that shows that your Biblical account is the truth?
Why is your mythology better than say the Egyption, Roman, Norse or Greek?

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
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Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 37 of 146 (576516)
08-24-2010 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by archaeologist
08-24-2010 4:41 AM


Re: To everybody else...
Why are you here, Arch? None of your ideas get any traction: why do you keep posting here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by archaeologist, posted 08-24-2010 4:41 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
Portillo
Member (Idle past 4183 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 38 of 146 (618785)
06-06-2011 5:03 AM


The biblical creation account is the most descriptive and detailed of all accounts. Not saying this proves its right, just saying that its something to consider.
Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by frako, posted 06-06-2011 5:26 AM Portillo has replied
 Message 40 by purpledawn, posted 06-06-2011 7:12 AM Portillo has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 327 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 39 of 146 (618787)
06-06-2011 5:26 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Portillo
06-06-2011 5:03 AM


And you know that because you read all the other 1500 (at least) creation myths?
Added:
Excluding ofcourse the version that has scientific evidence to back itself up and does not include a god. You know big bang---> planetery formation----> Abiogenisis----->evolution ------> the state we are in now
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. Address only topic related comments, if there are any.
AdminPD
Edited by frako, : No reason given.
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Portillo, posted 06-06-2011 5:03 AM Portillo has replied

Replies to this message:
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3479 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 40 of 146 (618792)
06-06-2011 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Portillo
06-06-2011 5:03 AM


quote:
The biblical creation account is the most descriptive and detailed of all accounts. Not saying this proves its right, just saying that its something to consider.
Message 1 gave a premise for this discussion.
Let's say for the sake of argument, Evidence is found that proves Darwin wrong. How do you know that the Biblical account of creation is the true story, and not the accounts told by the Shinto and Hindus (Both of which are living faiths) for example?
Citing the Bible is really invalidated by the other sagas (The Bible by itself is no more valid the others). What empirical evidence is there that proves the biblical creation story true and/or the other stories false.
P.S. Flood stories are common many cultures. So citing evidence of flood doesn't invalidate other sagas.
Description and detail aren't really enough to deem a story factual. Many fictional stories are very descriptive and detailed. There are fictional stories within the Bible. The parables that Jesus told were fictional stories. They presented real lessons, but the stories themselves were usually fictional. There are various types of parables.
Parable
The rabbis made extensive use of parables as a definitive method of teaching in the Talmud, and especially in the Midrash. Jesus, in his parables, was employing a well-established rabbinic form of conveying ethical and moral lessons. There are 31 parables in the New Testament, some of which are found in a slightly different version in rabbinical literature...
If there is nothing else to compare the stories with, how does one decide which creation story is factual as opposed to a religious lesson?
How does one normally discern whether any book or story is fact or fiction?

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AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 41 of 146 (618793)
06-06-2011 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by frako
06-06-2011 5:26 AM


Read the OP
frako writes:
And you know that because you read all the other 1500 (at least) creation myths?
Added:
Excluding ofcourse the version that has scientific evidence to back itself up and does not include a god. You know big bang---> planetery formation----> Abiogenisis----->evolution ------> the state we are in now
You didn't read the OP did you?
Please refrain from short remarks on or off topic that don't move the discussion forward.
Please direct any comments concerning this Administrative msg to the General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures (aka 'The Whine List') thread.
Thank you
AdminPD Purple
Edited by AdminPD, : Signature

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Portillo
Member (Idle past 4183 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 42 of 146 (618796)
06-06-2011 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by frako
06-06-2011 5:26 AM


Edited so I dont take the thread off topic.
Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.

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Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 146 (632160)
09-06-2011 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stumpy McPatch
12-04-2006 9:19 AM


And God said
2006 was when this thread was Created, So im not sure Stumpy is still here...
Stumpy writes:
Let's say for the sake of argument, Evidence is found that proves Darwin wrong.
Darwin or the TOE? I think science has moved way past Darwin. One thing that was a problem was the fossil record.(according to Stephen J gould). Enter, Punctuated equilibrium. It's SUCH a stretch to consider it, as much as it is for the world to be repopulated by Noah and his family that Evolutionist disagree with BUT PE is OK apperantly but not Noah.
How do you know that the Biblical account of creation is the true story, and not the accounts told by the Shinto and Hindus (Both of which are living faiths) for example?
From wiki:
The Rig Veda, the oldest scripture and the mainstay of Hindu philosophy does not take a restrictive view on the fundamental question of God and the creation of universe. It rather lets the individual seek and discover answers in the quest of life. Nasadiya Sukta (Creation Hymn) of the Rig Veda thus says[71][72]:
It looks like Hinduism is in the business of brokering deals for religion. Why do you think Hinduism rivals christianity when it says " find your own way". What if that way is Christianity? That's not religion that's a brokerage firm.
Citing the Bible is really invalidated by the other sagas (The Bible by itself is no more valid the others).
LOL. Than other what? How in the hell do you know it's no more valid than "others"? Have you done what the Bible instructs us to do to find out???
What empirical evidence is there that proves the biblical creation story true and/or the other stories false.
From Genesis chapter 1
11 Then God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind,
12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind.
24 Then God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind.
The Bible which you say is not "valid" seems spot on to me. How bout you? Do you see pear trees producing apple trees?
P.S. Flood stories are common many cultures.
Any why do you think that is?
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Stumpy McPatch, posted 12-04-2006 9:19 AM Stumpy McPatch has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by purpledawn, posted 09-06-2011 6:55 AM Chuck77 has replied
 Message 45 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-06-2011 7:21 AM Chuck77 has replied
 Message 46 by bluescat48, posted 09-06-2011 12:33 PM Chuck77 has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3479 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 44 of 146 (632165)
09-06-2011 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Chuck77
09-06-2011 5:41 AM


Re: And God said
quote:
The Bible which you say is not "valid" seems spot on to me. How bout you? Do you see pear trees producing apple trees?
Unfortunately just because I don't see pear trees producing apple trees, that doesn't make the Biblical creation story more valid than any other creation story. Each will have something we see today.
Creation Stories from around the World
Story of Corn and Medicine
Eventually the earth was dry and the animals moved down. There still was no light, however, and so the animals set the sun passing from east to west just over their heads. With the sun so close, many of the animals were burned, giving the red crawfish its crimson color. The animals raised the sun again and again, until it was high enough that all could survive.
There are red crawfish.
Birth in the Dawn
When the earth first became hot and the heavens churned and the sun was dark, land emerged from the slime of the sea. The deepest darkness of caverns, a male, and the moonless darkness of night, a female, gave birth to the simple lifeforms of the sea. The coral that builds islands was born, and the grub, the sea cucumber, the sea urchin, the barnacle, the mussel, the limpet, and cowry, and the conch and other shellfish. Born was the seagrass, guarded by the tough landgrass on land; born was the Manauea moss of the sea, matched by the Manauea taro plant on land; born was the Kele seaweed, and the Ekele plant of the land.
We can see coral, seagrass, and shellfish.
IMO, we tend to prefer the creation story we grew up with. That doesn't mean we can't appreciate and respect other creation stories.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Chuck77, posted 09-06-2011 5:41 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 45 of 146 (632172)
09-06-2011 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Chuck77
09-06-2011 5:41 AM


Re: And God said
Darwin or the TOE? I think science has moved way past Darwin. One thing that was a problem was the fossil record.(according to Stephen J gould). Enter, Punctuated equilibrium. It's SUCH a stretch to consider it, as much as it is for the world to be repopulated by Noah and his family that Evolutionist disagree with BUT PE is OK apperantly but not Noah.
Before you start being wrong about Stephen Jay Gould and punctuated equilibrium, a search of these forums might be useful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Chuck77, posted 09-06-2011 5:41 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Chuck77, posted 09-06-2011 7:35 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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