Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,842 Year: 4,099/9,624 Month: 970/974 Week: 297/286 Day: 18/40 Hour: 2/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is the bible authoritive and truly inspired?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 196 of 386 (575650)
08-20-2010 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by archaeologist
08-20-2010 5:15 PM


what was true 5,000 or 2,000 years ago is still the truth today regardless of what secular scientists claim or change.
But what was said to be true 5000 or 2000 or even 1 year ago may not be true at all.
For instance, the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by archaeologist, posted 08-20-2010 5:15 PM archaeologist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by archaeologist, posted 08-20-2010 5:21 PM crashfrog has replied

archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 197 of 386 (575651)
08-20-2010 5:18 PM


i said the author's names in the post but here it is again:
JAMIESON, FAUSSET,
BROWN COMMENTARY
NEW TESTAMENT VOL. 2
Romans-Revelation
by David Brown & Rev. A.R. Faussett
pages 935-7
B o o k s F o r T h e A g e s
AGES Software Albany, OR USA
Version 1.0 1997
it is the electronic version of the commentary.

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Theodoric, posted 08-20-2010 5:36 PM archaeologist has not replied

archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 198 of 386 (575654)
08-20-2010 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by crashfrog
08-20-2010 5:16 PM


But what was said to be true 5000 or 2000 or even 1 year ago may not be true at all.
For instance, the Bible.
using the Bible as an example just make syou obstinate and looking to cause trouble. the Bible is 100% true and there has been no scientific or archaeological discovery thathas provenone part of it false.
as i said, which was NOT 'what was said to be true...' what was true 5,000, 2,000 years ago is still true today and that is the Bible not secular science and its evolutionary alternatives.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by crashfrog, posted 08-20-2010 5:16 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 5:26 PM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 200 by crashfrog, posted 08-20-2010 5:35 PM archaeologist has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 199 of 386 (575655)
08-20-2010 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by archaeologist
08-20-2010 5:21 PM


archaeologist writes:
the Bible is 100% true and there has been no scientific or archaeological discovery thathas provenone part of it false.
I'm sorry but you continue to post untruths, falsehoods, even after you have been given the evidence that parts of the Bible are false.
There was no Biblical Flood. This has been provided to you several times and you never address the FACT that the Biblical Flood has been refuted.
If necessary I will gladly post the point by point evidence that totally refutes the Biblical Flood myths.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by archaeologist, posted 08-20-2010 5:21 PM archaeologist has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 200 of 386 (575659)
08-20-2010 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by archaeologist
08-20-2010 5:21 PM


using the Bible as an example just make syou obstinate and looking to cause trouble.
If you're going to talk to me I'd appreciate it if you could write like an educated person instead of like a grade-school child. Capitalize your sentences. Use appropriate, correct spelling and punctuation.
You're not talking with people on Twitter, you're talking to educated scientists. It's time for you to act like it. Your frequent mistakes make it all but impossible to understand what you're trying to say.
the Bible is 100% true and there has been no scientific or archaeological discovery thathas provenone part of it false.
The Bible has been disproven by an ample number of archeological and scientific discoveries which you have simply dismissed as a conspiracy by "secularists" to attack Christianity. That's not to mention all the archeological discoveries that are completely missing, if the accounts of the Bible are to be believed.
what was true 5,000, 2,000 years ago is still true today and that is the Bible not secular science and its evolutionary alternatives.
...and from what evidence do you conclude this? Do you see, yet, the circular reasoning you're engaged in? You believe the Bible is authoritative because that's supported by the evidence; evidence that contradicts that notion can be disregarded because the Bible is authoritative.
Perfectly circular. Your entire position is a fallacy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by archaeologist, posted 08-20-2010 5:21 PM archaeologist has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 201 of 386 (575660)
08-20-2010 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by archaeologist
08-20-2010 5:18 PM


Thanks for the reference
Again, I need to ask. If you are such an expert on ancient Greek, why do you have to do a large cut and paste? Why don't you put something in your own words.
Just giving a name is not giving a reference. Was it that hard to actually cite the source?
Don't you think biblical commentary and general knowledge may have changed a bit in 140 years.
quote:
This one volume commentary was prepared by Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown and published in 1871.
Bible Commentary Critical and Explanatory; Jamieson, Fausset, Brown

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by archaeologist, posted 08-20-2010 5:18 PM archaeologist has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4217 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 202 of 386 (575664)
08-20-2010 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by archaeologist
08-20-2010 5:15 PM


because the truth never changes. what was true 5,000 or 2,000 years ago is still the truth today regardless of what secular scientists claim or change.
What truth? All you have is a bunch of stories told by men who had no knowledge of what the earth, the sun, stars, planets, weather, relation ship of life, plate tectonics, nuclear fission, disease causing microorganisms, electricity , lightning, rainbows and just about anything else. And you expect me to believe their mythological explanations as truth? Talking snakes? Global flood? Tower to heaven?

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by archaeologist, posted 08-20-2010 5:15 PM archaeologist has not replied

Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3470 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 203 of 386 (575807)
08-21-2010 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Buzsaw
08-19-2010 10:27 PM


Re: Scripture Preserved.
Gday,
Buzsaw writes:
The quantity, literal compatibility and age of the manuscripts support authenticity.
But the manuscripts are DIFFERENT, not compatible.
Matthew 6:13 - The Lord's Prayer
Early and important MSS (Aleph, B, D, Z, 205, 547) as well as some fathers (Tertullian, Origen, and Cyprian) have :
"And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil"

Other MSS have :
"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen"

And a few MSS have another version :
"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, of the father, the son, and the holy spirit for ever. Amen"

A few MSS exclude the words "the power" or "the glory" or "the kingdom".
The Lord's Prayer is one of the more variant parts of the NT.
Now,
this prayer was supposedly taught by Jesus himself.
but God FAILED to preserve it,
and Jesus followers FAILED to remember it.
Kap

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Buzsaw, posted 08-19-2010 10:27 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3470 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 204 of 386 (575808)
08-21-2010 5:04 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by archaeologist
08-19-2010 4:45 PM


Gday,
archeologist writes:
AND unless YOU have the originals YOU CANNOT say they were altered and not preserved.
But the manuscripts we have now are all different. I have posted many such examples, you just refuse to even discuss them - such as the many differences in the Lord's Prayer, or the change to the words of God at the Baptism.
If all the manuscripts are different, then they MUST have been altered.
Which version of the Lord's Prayer do YOU think is original?
archeologist writes:
what do you think he has in his book? hearsay? i have quoted people and i still hear 'more evidence...' you have been given evidence and people keep rejecting it. there is a limit. read the book, read strobel's The Case for Christ,
I have read it.
It's faithful beliefs and apologetics.
Quoting beliefs is not evidence, you aren't in church now.
Kap

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by archaeologist, posted 08-19-2010 4:45 PM archaeologist has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3023 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 205 of 386 (575833)
08-21-2010 9:40 AM


Show us in any of today's good Bible translations where God's salvation in Christ Jesus has been altered from the manuscripts from which they have been translated?

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Coragyps, posted 08-21-2010 11:14 AM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 209 by Kapyong, posted 08-21-2010 4:33 PM John 10:10 has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 206 of 386 (575850)
08-21-2010 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by John 10:10
08-21-2010 9:40 AM


Who gets to define a good Bible translation, John? You? The Pope? Buzsaw? Archaeologist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by John 10:10, posted 08-21-2010 9:40 AM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by jar, posted 08-21-2010 11:34 AM Coragyps has not replied
 Message 208 by John 10:10, posted 08-21-2010 2:31 PM Coragyps has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 207 of 386 (575851)
08-21-2010 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by Coragyps
08-21-2010 11:14 AM


He also has not seen the Samaritan Orthodox Canon. It includes only the first five books as Canonical, none of the books after that are recognized as Canon.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Coragyps, posted 08-21-2010 11:14 AM Coragyps has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3023 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 208 of 386 (575868)
08-21-2010 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Coragyps
08-21-2010 11:14 AM


Please pick & choose to find if God's plan of salvation in Christ Jesus is different?
Best Known Versions
American Standard Version (ASV)
The American Standard Version, also known as the Standard American Edition, Revised Version, is a revised version of the KJV. It was completed in 1885 and newly edited by the American Revision Committee in 1901.
word-for-word
Douay-Rheims (RHE)
The Douay-Rheims is the translation upon which nearly all English Catholic Bible versions are based. It includes the seven Deutero-Canonical books (also known as the Apocrypha).
word-for-word from Latin Vulgate
English Standard Version (ESV)
The ESV Bible is a relatively new Bible translation that combines word-for-word precision and accuracy with literary excellence, beauty, and readability.
word-for-word
GOD'S WORD Translation (GW)
GOD'S WORD Translation (GW) accurately translates the meaning of the original texts into clear, everyday language. Readable and reliable, GW is living, active, and life-changing.
thought-for-thought
Good News Translation (GNT)
The Good News Translation was first published in 1976 by the American Bible Society in a "common language." The simple, everyday language makes it especially popular for children and those learning English.
thought-for-thought
Holman Christian Standard (CSB)
The HCS is a highly readable, accurate translation written in modern English. It is published by Holman Bible Publishers, the oldest Bible publisher in America.
word-for-word
King James Version (KJV)
The KJV is the first version of Scripture authorized by the Protestant church and commissioned by England's King James I.
word-for-wordNew American Standard (NAS)
The NAS is written in a formal style, but is more readable than the King James Version. It is highly respected as the most literal English translation of the Bible.
word-for-word
New International Version (NIV)
The NIV offers a balance between a word-for-word and thought-for-thought translation and is considered by many as a highly accurate and smooth-reading version of the Bible in modern English.
Combination word-for-word and thought-for-thought
New King James Version (NKJ)
The NKJ is a modern language update of the original King James Version. It retains much of the traditional interpretation and sentence structure of the KJV.
word-for-word
New Living Translation (NLT)
Using modern English, the translators of the NLT focused on producing clarity in the meaning of the text rather than creating a literal, word-for-word equivalence. Their goal was to create a clear, readable translation while remaining faithful to original texts.
thought-for-thought
New Revised Standard (NRS)
The New Revised Standard is a popular translation that follows in the traditions of the King James and Revised Standard Versions. It was written with the goal of preserving the best of the older versions while incorporating modern English.
word-for-word and thought-for-thought
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
The Revised Standard Version is a revision of the King James Version, the Revised Version, and American Standard Version. This text is intended for both private reading and public worship.
word-for-word using modern American language
The Message (MSG)
The Message is a paraphrase from the original languages written by Eugene, H. Peterson. The Message provides a fresh and unique Bible-reading experience.
thought-for-thought; paraphraseOther Translations
Modern
Bible in Basic English (BBE)
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
Hebrew Names Version (HNV)
New Century Version (NCV)
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
Third Millennium Bible (TMB)
Today's New International Version (TNIV)
World English Bible (WEB)
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
New Testament only
Weymouth New Testament (WNT)
Older Translations
The Darby Translation (DBY)
The Latin Vulgate (VUL)
The Webster Bible (WBT) Spanish
La Biblia de las Amricas (BLA)
La Biblia Reina-Valera (RVR)
Sagradas Escrituras (1569) (SEV)
French
Louis Segond 1910 (French) (LSG)
Ostervald (French) (OST)
German
Elberfelder 1905 (German) (ELB)
Luther Bible 1912 (German) (LUT)
Italian
Giovanni Diodati 1649 (Italian) (GDB)
Riveduta 1927 (Italian) (RIV)
Dutch
Staten Vertaling (Dutch) (SVV)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Coragyps, posted 08-21-2010 11:14 AM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Kapyong, posted 08-21-2010 4:38 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 227 by Coragyps, posted 08-23-2010 5:27 PM John 10:10 has not replied

Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3470 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 209 of 386 (575897)
08-21-2010 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by John 10:10
08-21-2010 9:40 AM


Gday,
John 10:10 writes:
Show us in any of today's good Bible translations where God's salvation in Christ Jesus has been altered from the manuscripts from which they have been translated?
I did.
I posted numerous examples of CHANGES to the NT.
Such as the various CHANGES made to the Lord's Prayer.
Which version of the Lord's Prayer do YOU agree with?
Why?
What about the other changes I quoted - will you just ignore them all, like 'archeologist' does?
Kap

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by John 10:10, posted 08-21-2010 9:40 AM John 10:10 has not replied

Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3470 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 210 of 386 (575898)
08-21-2010 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by John 10:10
08-21-2010 2:31 PM


Re: Please pick & choose to find if God's plan of salvation in Christ Jesus is different?
Gday John 10:10
Why did you post a list of different Bible translations?
Did you not notice all those translations are DIFFERENT?
John 10:10 writes:
word-for-word
King James Version (KJV)
The KJV is the first version of Scripture authorized by the Protestant church and commissioned by England's King James I.
word-for-word
New American Standard (NAS)
The NAS is written in a formal style, but is more readable than the King James Version. It is highly respected as the most literal English translation of the Bible.
word-for-word
New International Version (NIV)
The NIV offers a balance between a word-for-word and thought-for-thought translation and is considered by many as a highly accurate and smooth-reading version of the Bible in modern English.
These are three DIFFERENT translations that have very DIFFERENT words in them.
How can they ALL be "word-for-word" when they have DIFFERENT WORDS in them !?
Kapyong

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by John 10:10, posted 08-21-2010 2:31 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by John 10:10, posted 08-22-2010 9:25 AM Kapyong has replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024