Radical Clerics, Christian Morals, and Homosexuality

In the case of opposition to same sex marriage the bigotry is based on an ideology; their version of Club Christian.

evidently you didnt get the point of the article. In simple terms,allow me to explain my belief. Gender attraction is born. There is no way to hate on that. Marriage is a civil right and same sex marriage will and should pass, since we are not a Theocracy. That being said, and what most people dont understand, is that sexu8al behavior is a choice. Socially, people have rights and should have them.Spiritually, people have responsibilities to grow and become better, stronger people. Same gender attraction is inborn and should not be discriminated against. Sexual behavior, while the responsibility of the individual, can be controlled. Humans should not simply be driven by their feelings and preferences...(unless, of course, they believe that there is no higher authority than themselves.) Since you didn't understand that opposition to free will does not mean bigotry, i had to clarify. Ultimately you have the right to do whatever you darn well please. My point is that its not your wisest choice.

I agree. The church has no business legislating or attempting to legislate morality.its not a bigotry issue, however. Its a control issue.Just because I believe that people can choose who or what to have sex with and that they have a responsibility...to society...to be mature about it does not make me a bigot. If,however, I try and push for the government to legislate laws the way i want them to be, I then become judged.

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evidently you didnt get the point of the article. In simple terms,allow me to explain my belief. Gender attraction is born. There is no way to hate on that. Marriage is a civil right and same sex marriage will and should pass, since we are not a Theocracy. That being said, and what most people dont understand, is that sexu8al behavior is a choice. Socially, people have rights and should have them.

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Spiritually, people have responsibilities to grow and become better, stronger people. Same gender attraction is inborn and should not be discriminated against. Sexual behavior, while the responsibility of the individual, can be controlled. Humans should not simply be driven by their feelings and preferences...(unless, of course, they believe that there is no higher authority than themselves.) Since you didn't understand that opposition to free will does not mean bigotry, i had to clarify. Ultimately you have the right to do whatever you darn well please. My point is that its not your wisest choice.
  —Phat

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Your post implied that there was bigotry without an ideology.
I simply pointed out that all bigotry has an ideology.And explaining someone's prejudice does not justify it either.{abe} Then atheist homosexuals should be allowed to get married?Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

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I just read a great article that explains the Christian position and that i see as logical and reasonable.

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Macklemore-Same-Sex-Marriage-and-Human-Equality

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I thought that it was just a shallow attempt to avoid the justified charge of bigotry. For instance a patriotic American ought to recognise that the law - including marriage law - is a secular instrument and it is not there solely for imposing religious values on all of society (which is all he offers).So long as the opposition to gay marriage fails to offer reasonable objections, how can we conclude that their position is based on anything more than bigotry?

all homosexuals should be allowed to get married. The church should not interfere with civil secular government. It is not bigoted, however, that they not be allowed to marry in the church. You cant say we are bigoted simply because we don't morally agree with gay marriage. We don't morally agree with getting drunk either, but its your choice.The point is that if the church was doing its job, there would be less of a controversy. The church needs to show love but should not be required to compromise on social behavior.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Just a thought on this. It is my view that the state shouldn't be involved in marriage at all. The state should only sanction what would amount to an economic and domestic union between two consenting adults, which would have both tax and other economic consequences.

How $%%$ kind of you.Homosexuals are already are allowed to get married. Every adult can marry whichever they want. What we need is the state to stop treating people who love each other as is they were criminals who can be denied basic rights that you and I never even question.Because it is that denial of rights, and not your approval or disapproval that is important. Gay marriage isn't something you have to agree with or to compromise about. It's something for you to butt out of.Do you have any gay family members? Is your relationship with them really one long proselytizing session or do you compromise your values. Are those family members really equivalent to drunks and junkies in need of intervention?Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Your self-righteousness is getting old and is very off putting. Actually it is insulting.
Since when is getting drunk a moral or religious issue. Many christians get drunk quite regularly and I doubt that many think they are going against their church. Intoxication of varying forms is a very important part of a number of religions.Oh and I am sure homosexuals the world over are relieved that you deign they can marry.Saying that you are ok with homosexual marriage because there is nothing you can do legally to stop it doesn't endear you to anyone.I realize you, and other christians like you, are not morally superior to the rest of us, don't you?

It is very bigoted and your church should NOT be allowed to deny someone anything for reasons of sexuality any more than it isn't allowed to deny someone anything for reasons of race.If a church is denying because of sexuality then that church is shit and anyone attending that church is probably around racists, bigots just as they are CLEARLY around homophobes. More than likely being one or all of those themselves since they are attending said church.Fuck any church for doing that and the members that attend. I would call you a racist if you don't agree morally with interracial marriage and you ARE a bigot if you don't morally agree with gay marriage. You religious scape goat does not negate your responsiblity to own your opinion. Would you say the same thing if the church was turning away mixed couples?- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

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Just because I believe that people can choose who or what to have sex with and that they have a responsibility...to society...to be mature about it does not make me a bigot.

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Except that if you assume that homosexual sex is automatically "irresponsible" and "immature" you ARE a bigot.

This was once a Christian nation by population and by its original settlers, if not by the beliefs of the main Constitutional generation founders, and Christianity was the inspiration for much of its political and social life up until very recently.The job of the Christian Church in relation to society is 1) to offer the gospel so that those who believe may be saved, and 2) to be "salt and light" to the world in which we live. Salt prevents corruption and that's the meaning of that phrase. Preventing corruption means doing whatever we can to influence the culture away from practices that will destroy it. We haven't been doing a great job of that although at least we've made some effort to object to legalized abortion, too little too late, and some effort against pornographic "freedoms," also too little, but we've done nothing about the liberalization of divorce, cohabitation of unmarried couples and so on, all of which bring a culture under God's judgment. In fact the proliferation of such sins in a society is itself God's judgment because they are socially destructive in themselves."Freedoms" and "rights" have to be understood by Christians in this context: if a nation officially sanctions out and out sins against God's laws it brings the nation under His judgment and ultimate destruction, and if Christians are wishy-washy about opposing such things the church too is going to come under His judgment. Gay marriage could very well be the last straw, if it gets legalized throughout the country. Homosexuality is a sin in GOD's eyes, and marriage was ordained by God all the way back in Eden, so gay marriage is a serious violation of God's Law. It isn't for US to declare it a "right" if He's said it's sin.If the culture forces churches to perform gay marriages, we'll just have to go to jail or whatever penalty is coming down the pike against Christians, because at least the true orthodox churches won't give in to that. Here's our opportunity to resist the forces of sin to our own disadvantage. We'll need to pray for courage. Already some pastors have run afoul of Canada's "hate speech" laws for preaching that homosexuality is sin, which is simply preaching God's word. It could come here soon, and by the sound of the hate against us on this thread VERY soon.All this is in formerly strongly Christian nations, mightily blessed by God. No more. All we're looking at now is judgment, destruction, dissolution, attack by enemies, economic collapse, whatever form it may take, maybe all of the above. Some of us need no more proof that we're in the last of the last days than this. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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If the culture forces churches to perform gay marriages, we'll just have to go to jail or whatever penalty is coming down the pike against Christians, because at least the true orthodox churches won't give in to that

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You do realise that there isn't the slightest possibility of that happening in the U.S. in the forseeable future ?

Its ... original ... settlers? Though he's not very punctual in this respect, I've noticed. For example, the very foundation of the U.S. was a sin against 1 Peter 2:13-18 and Romans 13:1-6, and God still hasn't destroyed America for their godless so-called "War Of Independence". I guess he's too busy controlling the outcome of sporting events and appearing on cheese sandwiches. No you won't. The great thing about imaginary martyrdom is that it gives you that lovely warm self--righteous feeling inside without actually requiring any courage. In that respect, it sure beats the heck out of the real thing.

Hold on just a minute there. More homosexuality is the punishment for some homosexuality? That seems a little counter productive on God's part and I wonder if he thought that one all the way through.Could you identify any harm that is caused by homosexuality apart from it's gross affront to the word of God?