Dinosaurs and the reduced felt effect of gravity

The missing image which the moderator "fixed" is a picture of the USS Iowa, BB61.Webshots - Desktop Wallpaper and Screen Savers

The problem is not due to the moderator... that URL is not accessible. All the moderator did was reduce the size of pictures so that they did not extend the width of the page beyond the normal page width of a browser. Having a very large image in posts tends to make the whole page a bit hard to read.

I'm using redhat 9 and firebird; there must be some really huge difference between what I'm seeing and what windows users are. The pictures looked fine and of a reasonable size when I posted the thing originally and the one image looks too large to put on the screen now.There is basically no way I could recommend anybody using any version of windows on a home computer connected to the internet at this point in time. Linux is basically like a brick wall which viruses and other cybernetic mayhem simply bounce off of, the targets for all such simply not being there.

If Saurapods were operating at lower gravity why is it that their bones are structually designed to take the operating loads predicted at current gravitational levels?
They simply aren't. That was the entire point of the show which I'd mentioned earlier. Like I said earlier, fifteen years ago, I was the only person on Earth making such a claim and you'd get laughed at for making it and I caught every sort of grief on t.o for making that claim, nonetheless, everybody who's ever done the math since then has come to the same conclusion.

>Or even the maths itself?It goes like this, more or less:If you put one of our very strongest weightlifters, say, Bill Kazmaier or Brent Mikesell, next to a sauropod at equal weight sizes, you will be looking at one creature at the very top of the food chain and another near the bottom. The powerlifter's body is mostly bone and muscle; the saur's body (by weight) is mostly the vast digestive system needed to process grass and leaves, i.e. low value foods. There is no way the saur would be as strong, at equal weight sizes, particularly since muscle tissue is known to be nearly identically the same for pretty much all vertebrate animals, i.e. there is no way to simply claim that a sauropod simply had BETTER muscle than the weightlifter.Mathematically, due to the familiar square/cube problem, the human weightlifters top out at 20,000 - 25,000 lbs, i.e. at that size in our present gravity, it would be everything in the world one of them could do, fully warmed up, simply to stand up and lift his weight off the ground.You can get a general idea of how this works by assuming that the idea of a 350 lb man doing a 1000 lb squat or deadlift is about ballpark for the max possible such effort in the world, and using the normal isometric scaling which is used to determine who amongst the champions of various weight divisions has done the absolute best lift of a certain kind. Such scaling works fairly well amongst athletes built along similar lines and, for the purpose of scaling the SAME athlete to different sizes, would work perfectly since the similarity is obviously perfect.The equation becomes:1350/(two thirds power of 350) = x/(two thirds power of x)and, like I say, the result comes in around 20,000 lbs. That's the theoretical limit for the world today. The largest elephants actually weight around 14,000 - 16,000 lbs. The left side of the equation represents a 350 lb man lifting a 1000 lb. bar and the right side represents the same athlete simply lifting himself, i.e. standing up. The equation basically asks, at what weight would it be the same level of effort just to stand up, as it is for one of these top athletes to do a 1000 lb squat or deadlift (at hispresent/normal size, in our present gravity).Notice that I'm not using one of the so-called yoke lifts which could be as much as 3000 lbs or thereabouts, since that only involves moving from standing minus an inch or two to standing, and does not resemble the ordinary act of standing up the way a squat or deadlift does.

I'm rockin' Firebird under XP...The first part of that makes sense, the second part doesn't.There are something like 50,000 known viruses out there in the windows world, and this in my view has something to do with all the little companies and products which msoft has swallowed up and spat out the bones thereof over the years; I would GUESS that a lot of the people who used to work at those companies now sit around writing windows viruses.There are something like five or ten known viruses in the linux world and they're all targeted at servers, the chance of me ever getting one of them is basically zero.

The idea that you can simply scale up a human weightlifter is non-sensical. Humans simply do not work in a mechanically comparible way to a sauropdod.

That's right. The human would be a LOT stronger, at equal weight sizes. More than half of the human's body weight is in bone and muscle in the legs, i.e. lefting/standing power. That figure for the sauropod, visually, would appear to be more like 10% or 15%

>btw -- unanswered posts now come toLike I say, I try to reply to intelligent posts and questions. The others I don't feel any particular obligation to respond to.

That's interesting. It looks like the ossified generation no longer has any sort of a hammerlock on paleontology.

Herre's yet another piece of the picture which I seem to have overlooked here. The heaviest birds which can take off or land in our present world are around 30 lbs, including albatrosses and buzzards, and the largest flying eagles are around 25 lbs, i.e. the largest berkuts. They get one or two berkuts that size every fifty years or so; any larger than that, and they can't take off or land, and they perish. The Argentinian teratorn, of course, was a 200 lb eagle with a 25' wingspan, yet another thing which can't happen in present gravity:

>The arm of that crane is considerably longer than any sauropod's neck, not to mention heavier...It also has structural support (the suspension cables), which the saur's neck didn't. Remove the cables and watch what happens.

Like I say, I try to reply to intelligent posts and questions. The others I don't feel any particular obligation to respond to.

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LOL. we have, you know, seen this before. You are not fooling anyone.

"6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your
pearls before swine..."

>Prove it can't fly.The ostrich is living proof that birds that size can't fly. After the change in gravity, the larger birds either died out, or their wings became vestigial, as inthe case of ostriches, moas etc. etc.

>So in order to scale something up, you need to construct it in a complete different way.Either that, or do it in a world where gravity is less of a problem. That's the conclusion most of the people studying the problem are coming to at present.http://www.bearfabrique.org/japanscreens/index.htm

They don't just produce things off their own bat; someone uses them to help produce the program. Who would that be, in this instance? My guess is Ted Holden himself, perhaps with financial support from others in the neo-catastrophist community.

Not even close. KEI came to Holden unannounced and out of the blue, and the interest was in dinosaurs and gravity, and definitely not catastrophism. Moreover, a lot of other people had input into that program, and a quick google search on 'dinosaurs' and 'gravity' will convince anybody that more than one or two people have come to this same conclusion.I'll say it again; the nation which gets there first with gravity control is going to have a hell of a thing going, and THAT is what the Japanese are interested in.

The bones of the pterosaurs indicate a max wingspan of 60' and not 40'; the aeronautical engineering dept of the Univ of Texas simply refused to allow Langston to reconstruct them that way. They basically said "Hey, you're making us look stupid enough putting those things together with 40' wingspans but we'll allow that. 60' Wingspans and people will think nobody in Texas knows anything about physics.The "model" you mentioned was being towed behind a car for a few minutes before it crashed. The real-life pterosaur didn't have a car.Adrien Desmond noted that calculations similar to mine for sauropods have indicated a maximum size of around 40 lbs for flying creatures in our present world/gravity. Beyond that, even if they were only trying to glide and not fly, they'd snap their wing bones any time they tried to turn.