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Author | Topic: evolution is IN the bible! | |||||||||||||||||||||||
kofh2u Member (Idle past 3846 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
1) Yes, you tell me you are a scientist. So, it is excusable that you are auch a poor literary critic.
I didn't ask you to BELIEVE what the bible says. I asked you to tell us in you opinion and after a lot of critical research, or even find someone else's criticism.... what is htis litersture saying? Why would thiese verse be in there? How can these be explained in the things 2 billion christians explain all the time? How do they, the two billion Christians in their twelve denominational churches explain these ideas in complement to all eles they so willingly and unrelentingly explain to all for free? 2) My point is that neither you nor they have, or seem able, or seem to want to, explain these wierd things, like they are unimportant, right? Except for one thing. They reappear again and again... in the last book of the bible, The Revelation. And they appear for whole chapters as they do in Ezekiel 1, and Ezekiel 10. We read about them in Revelation chapter 4, Revelation chapter 5, Revelation chapter 6, and Revelation chapter 14.That's a lot of four faced wierdo beasts that haven't had even a suggestion made concerning them other than, "its a spiritual thingee"... 3) I mean, as a scientist, is what I got here a Literary Hypothesis or not? If I can explain them in a continuity of other supporting ideas in scripture, should I just sit on it, my criticism? (Don't answer that, I know what you want me to sit on.) More to the point, does Oscam's Razor rule if they incorporate quite nicely with the other matters in Revelation and especially, throughout Ezekiel, explaining away ez chaoter... the whole chapter 37, on "dry bone coming alive? I mean, as a scientist, is what I got here a Literary Hypothesis or not?
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Muhd Inactive Member |
So you believe that everything in the Bible is symbolic, so you can interpret it anyway you want?
If the Bible is supposed to be a guide for our lives, then certainly it needs to be considered much more literally.
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SRO2  Inactive Member |
look Kofth, I've told you before, my mind doesn't work the same way yours does when it comes to things like this, you can believe anything you want, but you can't have my scientific validation of yur "beliefs"...nor should need or want them.
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3846 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
Of course not.
Only a fool would take a medium such as literature, and read it without anticipating the writers techniques. Writers, divinely inspired or otherwise, express themselves in about seven distinctly differ ways. That is: there is a technical process used. Jesus spoke parables, for instance, which we have recorded verbatim, supposedly. We certainly are to read them as such, analogies. The symbolism of Revelation, in particular, is just that. Symbolic dictionaries are a companion to good critique. Nothing could be more metaphorical than the spiritual descriptions we read in scripture, for sure. I mean that the whole process of intelligent literary critique is essential to changing the scriptures into the thoughts we are to understand about them. Is it literal, with merely terminology of the 20th Century substituted, that I identify the "seven spirits" and the "sevenfold nature" in God and hence, in ourselves, in the image of God, as the seven recently recognized spirits that can and do possess us? 1) Id = The Pleasure Principle = Lucifer2) Libido = Physical Drives = Satan 3) Ego = The Aggressive Drive = Mammon 4) Anima = Feminine principle of Intuition = Devil 5) Self = The Reality Principle = Baalzebub 6) Superego = The Logical/Mathematical Mind = False Prophet 7) Harmony = Psychic Balance = False Shepherd The eighth emerging psychic factor has been brought to our attention by martyrs. 8) Conscience = Brotherliness = The Good Shepherd Rev. 1:4 ... Grace be unto you, and peace, ...; and from the seven psychic Spirits which are before his throne; Id, Libido, EGO, Anima, Self, Superego, Harmony...Rev. 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand,... The seven stars are the psychic angels, Id, Libido, EGO, Anima, Self, Superego, Harmony... [This message has been edited by kofh2u, 04-07-2004]
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3846 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
Of course not.
First you get criticized for post nothin' of substance, and now I criticize you for insubstancial reading of posts. I said "regardless of believing what you read in scripture"... what does it say. Now consider this. You are posting EVERY day, here and of netscape. The boards you come to are concerned with differences of opinion. Science on one hand, Scripture on the other. Myself, a Physics background, feel fairly at home in these formums. I have studied your science. So I talk to science people about the Bible I have researchered. Now, how can you plead ignorance of the Bible? Are you telling us that you neither read the Bible nor care to? Are you answering us every day without any idea concerning the content of scripture? Are you saying that you are a PART TIME science person? That SOME TIMES you think logically and rationally, but not here, on these boards? Here you quip and make fun of, and besmerch, and denigrate about a subject you have zero knowledge of? Is that what you are saying" How can you have the audacity to be on these forums? Are you an ignoramus... a person who knows nothing about a subject but SUBJECTS people who do to his ridicule? Nay, not you. You are a top guy according to my friends down there at NASA. By the way, do you ever accompany the guys who host the Science Conventions? Now.. admit I'm 100% right or answer my previous questions, i gotta go soon.
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SRO2  Inactive Member |
1)Whoever told you that I'm the "one of the top guy's down at NASA"...is
almost as loony as you are. B) I'm tired of this, if backed you 100% and lent you all my scientific credibility including my real name, nobody would believe I did it, and you'd STILL be loony. Omega) I tried to be nice to you numerous times, now leave me alone.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Well, bless his heart, he's tryin' do something...even if it's goin' the wrong way. Trixie's right. If he treated scientific journals or textbooks the way he treats the Bible, he'd definitely be called on the carpet for breaking forum rules.
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SRO2  Inactive Member |
I'm tying to be nice. When he came on here I knew him from another board so I had already developed a bad opinion of his work for myself, but he deserves a fair chance to speak his mind, just because I don't care for his postulations doesn't mean nobody else does.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1530 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
kofh2u it is a shame that some people who have a little knowlege use it to attempt to belittle others beliefs. I do not mind opinions but Rocket comes off as arrogant and IMO people can tolerate ingnorance, people can tolerate stupidity, but add arrogance to this list and in short order Rocket has shown himself as a ignorant dogmatic arrogant jackass. Not because of his opinions but how he chooses to voice them. I do not think I am alone in this observation of his behavior on this forum.
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AdminAsgara Administrator (Idle past 2329 days) Posts: 2073 From: The Universe Joined: |
my opinion:
http://EvC Forum: Rocket suspended (was 'Warning to Rocket - Straighten up your act') AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe
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apple Inactive Member |
So why would someone write in the Bible that we are to guess what 666 means? What was the purpose of writing something and having people guess what the writer meant?
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3846 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
Hello apple,
The reasons are seven. 1) 666 for the Human Intuition:One reason, it pricks our intuition. There are many people, always have been, in every generation who "love" mystery. There are today, and there always has been, an audience which appreciates the puzzle and the challenge of this 666. God knew many people would like this 666 idea! I guess its in there just for the devilment of it. 2) 666 for the Human Self:Another more rational reason, less a spiritualism of the Anima, is that it reflects upon the Reality Principle. The bible writer recognizes that we think, and read, and reflect in the mental state of the Human Self, the focal of our Semantical Intelligence. Realistically, then, 666 is a ploy since it was intended that these scriptures "self" perpetuate themselves in the next generation, forever. They have, in fact, represented the "Best Seller" in all generations. So, the reason was also practical. This 666 thingee has had a pretty good run in the advertising department of God! 3) 666 for the Human Libido:Then, there is the mystery of how the number actually means a particular person. This reflects on the common sense observation of our very Libidinal response to the life we are living. Though it need not mean only one unique person, it concerns a spiritual or attitudinal way of thinking and acting. It also implies that it will be a recognizable type of person. It has proven to be true, finding such attitude and behavior in every generation, especially at some very high level of social control. These observations and reports of previous 666 types helps support the Freudian claimof a presence of "Seven types of Human Behaviors" emanating fro our psyches. So, it has empirical proof value. People say they saw 666 types. 4) 666 for the Human Superego:This is because "666" represents an archetypal manifestation. There IS the "666" way of behaving. It means that the Nietzcheian "Power of the Will" concept is an ever more prominent, and growing, and maturing psychic entity in our society. Nietzche pretty much voiced the culmination of the Social Superego with us today, in this logical scientific age. We see 666 is a giant sociological manifestation. It is our present science/technology, the fruit of the Logical/Mathematical apparatus of our minds. in this, it is the False Prophet, the meaning of 666 as stated in Revelation 13: 13-14),heralding a better tomorrow for mankind. This is all supported by people's observation. This is empirical. Seeing is believing. We have historical accounts, and even speculations today, that superego self-willedness and powerful cold human logic is and always has been a characteristic human quality. This numerology, 666, has had a wide application in every generation. The number 666,and the behavior has always seemed to be a pretty good match for someone in every age. This all seems to focus physical attention, looking, seeing, watching for the behavior of such mini-666 personages This is just as it has done in our own generation where a Maxi-666 surely has been among us. So, in part, 666 is data. Empirical observed evidence that as certain characteristic humanattribute, The Superego" transcends death, like a demi-God, or Evil Spirit, or the False Prophet, or The Anti-Christ, of Sci-Technology. 666 IS. We see how Nietzche's statements reflected openly on the mental complex of the HumanSuperego, especially today, in his claim the "God is dead." More and more people are saying this. The Social Superego is very noticeable, true? This age is 666. We see how this thinking goes back to Roman Caesars who could believe themselves tobe God. We see that 666 is in us all. We all have this sixth Freudian archetypal step in our psychic maturation. And today, mankind represent the sixth major Hominoid manifestation, Modern (6) Homo (6) Sapiens. 7) Cut to the finish.... 666 is for the sake of Human Harmony in religion. The reason 666 was to interject, somewhere, in these sacred passages was to establishthat there is a Hebrew numerology. This is what the Jews call their mysticism, the Kabbalah. They have lost the art andunderstanding of this "Secret Esoteric Doctrine of Israel." But, ever Rabbi has something to say about Kabbalah, and many synagogues contemplate the lost wisdom, read and write about Kabbalah. None can explain it and its importance to understanding scripture. For the Christians, long taught that the Gentile Numerology thingee was evil, andinstructed to run like a plague was upon them, the numbers 666 forever holds open the door to their edification on this "Hidden Manna" mentioned in Revelation 2:17. The secret also has to do with understanding what Jesus was doing that so shocked hiscommunity. His mother and brothers, along with many of the Jews thought he had gone mad. He used his hand, spread in a strange way, fanned out, to baptize with fire! So, the most important reason for 666 is so I can not be refrained from exposing theunknown Hidden Manna, and the mystery of the priestly hand of resurrection, and means by which Jesus exercised evil spirits. This number 666 has the attention of all Christendom, and their priesthood's have NOexplanation that makes concrete sense. Neither about 666, Jewish Kabbalah, or the "fan in his hand"... (Matthew 3:11-12) So, 666 puts all this on the table and the pharisees can not merely wave the discussionaway into the realm of numerology and evil. They MUST entertain explanations since they are without any themselves. In this 666 is a biggy in Christianity.
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apple Inactive Member |
Hi Kofh,
You list seven reasons but weren't those reasons valuable when the Bible was first written? If it is important for one to know what 666 means today was it not important for others to know what 666 meant yesterday? Or 1000 years ago? Or is 666's value in just keeping our attention? You write, "I guess its in there just for the devilment of it." yet go on to say it represents a way of behaving and numerology and the Kabbalah, etc, etc. Why wasn't it all explained before? Why wasn't it written so it could be deciphered years ago? Why wasn't it explained in clear language for all to understand before 2000 years passed? My original question was why was it deliberately written as a mystery? The same as with your 7 "spirits". If our understanding of that is important why wasn't that written in a way that could have been understood a 1000 years ago? One gets the impression time is of little importance. If there are lessons to be learned from the Bible why are the lessons not clearly explained? Is the Bible written as a joke book? A crossword puzzle? Something for one's entertainment but not a book that is supposed to show us the "rules of life"? Would a serious person writing the Highway Code Rules describe the 60 MPH speed limit as "the sum of the digits of one hand (5) plus one (5+1=6)multipled by the sum of the digits of both hands (10 digits, 6X10=60)is the lawful speed limit"? Is this any way to inform people of laws and rules? Why the games unless that is precisely what it is; a game, a hoax, a book written and compiled to be the biggest scam ever perpetrated on mankind?
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3846 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
Obviously because people want proof, they will not take advice.
You ask, why does the bible couch ideas in mysterious numbers and say things that are hidden? Why did Jesus tell the apostles things that he did not tell the crowds? For starters, telling people about behavior, especially their own has little effect. The number 666 is part of an empirical proof that every age has been able to relate to some expression found in someone well known to all that fits the bill of a Superego dominate personality. Alwaya a Nietzche type has been observed, "God is dead" and we don't need Him anymore. The False Shepherd type. Surely that will not suffice for you. But, why would you demand that the message be so clear? Most people, and I believe yourself included, would argue the message no matter what. So, what the scriptures did was use Human Behavior, since these writings claim to so thoroughly understand us and our society. Used scripture to form a 2 billion member army of Christianity. This was accomplished right in the midst of Pagan Rome. What ever else we might think, there was and is some clear message, a mystery perhaps to you and others, but the whole world changed as predicted. That is no mystery, it is evident. The mystery is the Behavioral Science in the Book that did this, The Word, and the Word made flesh. Matt. 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
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desdamona Inactive Member |
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