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Author Topic:   Is the New Testament anti-semitic?
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3612
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 1 of 12 (101733)
04-22-2004 12:29 AM


"Is the New Testament anti-semitic?" is the topic for our philosophical debate tomorrow. I think people voted on this topic because of the new movie.

Anyway, since I don't know nearly enough about the New Testament, I have asked one of my philosophy of religion professor to be the referee this time.

Just thought that this is a good discussion topic on these boards.

Me personally, I do not think the New Testament is anti-semitic at all. For one thing, Jesus was a Jew.

What do you all think?


The Laminator


Replies to this message:
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 Message 8 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 04-23-2004 2:09 PM Lammy has responded

    
Adminnemooseus
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Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 12 (101802)
04-22-2004 4:49 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

    
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3612
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 3 of 12 (101933)
04-22-2004 6:57 PM


Hahahaha. Since nobody wants to discuss this, I'll just tell you what happened today in the debate and then we can let this thread die.

We attracted 4 instructors and 2 of them each brought a stack of books on the issue. I just stayed quiet the whole time because I really don't know that much about the bible to go deep into it. Generally, we had a very good discussion going. Since there were actually professors there, there were less nonsensical rantings than usual. In fact, almost everyone that came today was armed with at least 1 bible. There was a guy that brought 6 versions of the bible.

Anyway, that was a good two and a half hours worth of debate.


The Laminator


Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Asgara, posted 04-22-2004 7:02 PM Lammy has responded

    
Asgara
Member (Idle past 593 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 4 of 12 (101937)
04-22-2004 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Lammy
04-22-2004 6:57 PM


So, what was the general consensus?

I wouldn't call the NT anti-semetic but Mel baby's movie sure was. I haven't been that disturbed by a movie in a long time.


Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6805
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 5 of 12 (101984)
04-22-2004 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lammy
04-22-2004 12:29 AM


Most of the New Testament was written after the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple. One thing, among others, that resulted from this was that it was no longer possible to practice traditional Judaism, which involved rituals at the temple. For Jews, this meant the development of what has become the modern Rabbinical form of Judaism (although I think this development began even before this, since even by this time there were significant numbers of Jews living all over the Roman empire). For those Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah, it now became possible to make a complete break with Judaism and develop as an independent religion.

Now, up to this time, traditionally minded Jews weren't so happy with these blasphemers who claimed that the Son of God came to earth was crucified by the Romans. They weren't allowed (if the New Testament writings can be trusted on this) to preach in the synagogues, and there was a lot of pressure, even persecution, by the traditional Jews. So it isn't surprising that the "Christians" would start to resent the "Jews", i.e those that still wouldn't accept Christ.

The Gospel of John was written over half a century after the alleged crucifiction. By this time, there was plenty of bad blood between the Christian and Jews. Read John - I have always felt that the anti-Semitism comes out quite clearly there.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Lammy
Member
Posts: 3612
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 6 of 12 (101996)
04-22-2004 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Asgara
04-22-2004 7:02 PM


Asgara writes:

So, what was the general consensus?

Just like most debates here, there was no general consensus. We had half the people accusing John and Paul of all kinds of things, and we had the other half who said there was no such thing.

One thing though, I've never seen so many bible page flippings. It was like "but over here, it says this..." then someone else flipped like 20 pages over and said "but over here, it says this..." then someone else flipped 30 pages in the other direction and said "but over here, it says this..." then...etc...

It was kinda fun sitting back and watching people do nothing but flipping pages and arguing with each other over passages in the bible.


The Laminator


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Asgara, posted 04-22-2004 7:02 PM Asgara has not yet responded

    
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 7 of 12 (102036)
04-22-2004 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Chiroptera
04-22-2004 8:29 PM


Chipotera quote:
______________________________________________________________________
Read John - I have always felt that the anti-Semitism comes out quite clearly there.
______________________________________________________________________

Like what ?

Such as ......


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 Message 5 by Chiroptera, posted 04-22-2004 8:29 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

    
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 12 (102197)
04-23-2004 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lammy
04-22-2004 12:29 AM


I don't see how the new testament could be construed as anti-semetic. Jesus was focused on exposing the religious leadership of the Jews for their hypocrisy. His love for the people of Israel is apparent throughout the gospels.

Luke 19:41
And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
(Jerusalem)

Luke 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So if Jesus loves Israel, and the new testament is based on Jesus, how can the new testament be anti-semetic?

Jesus came and healed the lame, blind, lepors, demon possessed and those with many other afflictions (most of them Jews). It often says he did these things because he had compassion on them. How can this be anti-semetic?

Jesus only preached against the corrupt religous leadership of the time not against the nation of Israel.


Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lammy, posted 04-22-2004 12:29 AM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Lammy, posted 04-23-2004 2:21 PM funkmasterfreaky has responded

  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3612
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 9 of 12 (102200)
04-23-2004 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by funkmasterfreaky
04-23-2004 2:09 PM


Remember that the topic isn't Is Christ Anti-semitic?. The topic is Is the New Testament Anti-semitic.


The Laminator


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 04-23-2004 2:09 PM funkmasterfreaky has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 04-23-2004 2:32 PM Lammy has not yet responded

    
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 12 (102203)
04-23-2004 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Lammy
04-23-2004 2:21 PM


Sorry. I was operating on the idea that the new testament is based on Christ, therefore if Jesus wasn't anti-semetic, how then could the new testament be. Didn't realize I was off topic.


Saved by an incredible Grace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Lammy, posted 04-23-2004 2:21 PM Lammy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6805
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 11 of 12 (102218)
04-23-2004 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by funkmasterfreaky
04-23-2004 2:32 PM


Christ isn't the same as Jesus. Jesus, if he existed, seemed to be a wandering preacher of some type, whereas Christ is a conflation of various sects of the the Jesus cult that later arose, along with some pagan additions (like the concept of a god sacrificing himself for the benfit of the world).

This message is a reply to:
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Asgara
Member (Idle past 593 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 12 of 12 (102219)
04-23-2004 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Chiroptera
04-23-2004 4:02 PM


Not to mention that the supposed words of Jesus are a small percentage of the entire NT.


Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Chiroptera, posted 04-23-2004 4:02 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

    
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