Hahahaha. Since nobody wants to discuss this, I'll just tell you what happened today in the debate and then we can let this thread die.
We attracted 4 instructors and 2 of them each brought a stack of books on the issue. I just stayed quiet the whole time because I really don't know that much about the bible to go deep into it. Generally, we had a very good discussion going. Since there were actually professors there, there were less nonsensical rantings than usual. In fact, almost everyone that came today was armed with at least 1 bible. There was a guy that brought 6 versions of the bible.
Anyway, that was a good two and a half hours worth of debate.
Most of the New Testament was written after the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple. One thing, among others, that resulted from this was that it was no longer possible to practice traditional Judaism, which involved rituals at the temple. For Jews, this meant the development of what has become the modern Rabbinical form of Judaism (although I think this development began even before this, since even by this time there were significant numbers of Jews living all over the Roman empire). For those Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah, it now became possible to make a complete break with Judaism and develop as an independent religion.
Now, up to this time, traditionally minded Jews weren't so happy with these blasphemers who claimed that the Son of God came to earth was crucified by the Romans. They weren't allowed (if the New Testament writings can be trusted on this) to preach in the synagogues, and there was a lot of pressure, even persecution, by the traditional Jews. So it isn't surprising that the "Christians" would start to resent the "Jews", i.e those that still wouldn't accept Christ.
The Gospel of John was written over half a century after the alleged crucifiction. By this time, there was plenty of bad blood between the Christian and Jews. Read John - I have always felt that the anti-Semitism comes out quite clearly there.
Just like most debates here, there was no general consensus. We had half the people accusing John and Paul of all kinds of things, and we had the other half who said there was no such thing.
One thing though, I've never seen so many bible page flippings. It was like "but over here, it says this..." then someone else flipped like 20 pages over and said "but over here, it says this..." then someone else flipped 30 pages in the other direction and said "but over here, it says this..." then...etc...
It was kinda fun sitting back and watching people do nothing but flipping pages and arguing with each other over passages in the bible.
Chipotera quote: ______________________________________________________________________ Read John - I have always felt that the anti-Semitism comes out quite clearly there. ______________________________________________________________________
I don't see how the new testament could be construed as anti-semetic. Jesus was focused on exposing the religious leadership of the Jews for their hypocrisy. His love for the people of Israel is apparent throughout the gospels.
Luke 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, (Jerusalem)
Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
Matthew 10 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
So if Jesus loves Israel, and the new testament is based on Jesus, how can the new testament be anti-semetic?
Jesus came and healed the lame, blind, lepors, demon possessed and those with many other afflictions (most of them Jews). It often says he did these things because he had compassion on them. How can this be anti-semetic?
Jesus only preached against the corrupt religous leadership of the time not against the nation of Israel.
Sorry. I was operating on the idea that the new testament is based on Christ, therefore if Jesus wasn't anti-semetic, how then could the new testament be. Didn't realize I was off topic. Saved by an incredible Grace.
Christ isn't the same as Jesus. Jesus, if he existed, seemed to be a wandering preacher of some type, whereas Christ is a conflation of various sects of the the Jesus cult that later arose, along with some pagan additions (like the concept of a god sacrificing himself for the benfit of the world).