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Author Topic:   Is belief in an afterlife a crutch?
SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 12 (102020)
04-22-2004 10:18 PM


Is belief in an afterlife simply a crutch? Eons of superstition and ritual passed along through our ancestors? Is it a humanistic flaw that extends in ritual through the pomp and circumstance of burial.
I believe it is the thinking creatures escape of the finality of death. Are there examples where religious ritual serve purposes other than the escape from the finality death?
Note to all; This is intentionally controversial. It will spark heated debate that I believe is healthy.
{Title modified from "Is belief a crutch?" to "Is belief in an afterlife a crutch?". - Adminnemooseus}
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-23-2004]

Replies to this message:
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 Message 6 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 04-24-2004 6:25 PM SRO2 has not replied
 Message 8 by ElliPhant, posted 04-26-2004 8:16 AM SRO2 has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 12 (102137)
04-23-2004 6:49 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
My personal preference would have been to put this in the "Faith and Belief" forum, however, I am assuming that Rocket wanted it in the "Free For All".
Adminnemooseus
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-23-2004]

Replies to this message:
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SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 12 (102220)
04-23-2004 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Adminnemooseus
04-23-2004 6:49 AM


misunderstood the formatting
I thought if you did a "propose new topic" it would kick it over to the suggestions thread under "proposed new topic", but you really have to propose the new topic on the thread you desire it to go on....got it. you can move it to the Faith/belief thread if you like.

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 4 of 12 (102232)
04-23-2004 4:32 PM


Thread moved here from the Free For All forum.

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 12 (102255)
04-23-2004 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by SRO2
04-22-2004 10:18 PM


I was wondering if Jews believed in an afterlife. I had heard that "Heaven" was more of a New Testament theology, but I may be mistaken.
My point is that not every religion believes in an afterlife, although many do. However, even if a religion lacks an afterlife reward they still give purpose to everyday struggles which may be a reward in itself. Why does child birth hurt so much? Because of Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. It explains why we struggle or experience pain which can offer solace in the place of what seems to be pointless suffering.

This message is a reply to:
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6156 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 6 of 12 (102451)
04-24-2004 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by SRO2
04-22-2004 10:18 PM


My 2 cents
I've heard of near-death experiences where the person feels very warm and comfortable while acending toward a white light. Supposedly, most of them recall looking back down and seeing their bodies being operated on etc. depending on where they were. An older relative of mine told me about this as well; that's what converted him to Christianity.
I have not had such an experience myself and I know nothing of what's after this life; I only believe what I take on faith which has been reinforced by these accounts. But really, if these stories are true then whatever's after this life is nothing to be afraid of.

This message is a reply to:
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Unseul
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 12 (102572)
04-25-2004 9:13 AM


Near death experiences
OK, i havent had a near death experience (except for living). However once i dreamt that id fallen off a cliff, plummeted, and then it just sorta went dark and very peaceful, thats all i remember a feeling of great peace and calm. Now this whole time i was lying in bed, in good health.
Also in other dreams i have quite often viewed myself from a third person persepective. Maybe if someone with an out of body experience could tell you information from outside the room their body is in it could be interesting.
As far as being able to remember conversations of the surgeons etc i dont consider this as proof at all, as you are in the room, hearing is the last sense to leave us, and so its possible u just heard it and remembered it, rather than watched from outside.
In reply to a previous post, although not all religions believe in an afterlife, im not sure of any that do not contain at least a form of continuation, such as reincarnation etc.
Its instinctive for every animal to try and survive, and so between a choice of an ending (death) and continuation (is that even a word??) i suspect a lot of people are going to choose the latter. Especially those who are upon their death beds, when the event is one that is very immediate.
And to finish i'd quite like to share a quote at this point from Joseph Heller (catch-22) I have a morbid aversion to dying. Found it fairly amusing meself.

Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....

  
ElliPhant
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 12 (102764)
04-26-2004 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by SRO2
04-22-2004 10:18 PM


It appears to me that belief in an afterlife is a rather unimportant part of a spiritual philosophy. If you are working for the retirement package it's pretty much a waste of your life. I don't think that any God would create people to waste their lives... I get the image of a giant sorting machine picking out the ones that "fit" and the ones that "don't". it doesn't seem very "God-like" to me.
Perhaps Belief in the afterlife is a crutch, perhaps belief itself is a crutch.
but then plenty of people have different crutches, being a workaholic for example, or an alcoholic or pretty much anything ending in "holic", many people live their lives with the hope that they will continue in some way, whether it be through their children, through their charities, through their artistic contributions, through pretty much anything they do... maybe that's a crutch too.
Hey, maybe everything we do is to distract us from dying. perhaps we only truly appreciate life when we know it is to end?
If belief (in the afterlife, in whatever) is a crutch... well I can think of worse crutches.

This message is a reply to:
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atrejusan
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 12 (102915)
04-26-2004 9:05 PM


quote:
Elliphant wrote: It appears to me that belief in an afterlife is a rather unimportant part of a spiritual philosophy. If you are working for the retirement package it's pretty much a waste of your life. I don't think that any God would create people to waste their lives... I get the image of a giant sorting machine picking out the ones that "fit" and the ones that "don't". it doesn't seem very "God-like" to me.
In response to the first sentence: would that it were so perceived by the majority of the world's adult population, whose religious beliefs hinge upon the promise of the here after.
The second half of your paragraph: would that such simple sense struck the minds of the minimally curious.
The "after life" seems to me the ultimate expression of cynical autosuggestive rubbish. What more absolute way to ensure the worthy functions of human experience are callously dismissed like so much wasted effort? If there were a Creator responsible for the gift of life, I cannot imagine a more disappointing spectacle than the passive-aggressive chirade that is human belief in the after life.
In response to the topic: humans fear death; humans are born without wisdom; humans are prone to stupendous leaps of moronic inference; humans are selfish. The combination of these curses: our already existing, billion-years-old answer to death (procreation) is supplanted by a psychotic, nebulous, self-indulgent fantasy.
In response to someone who mentioned a relative who was impelled towards Christianity on the merit of a "near-death" experience: that's what I call providential. It is as decidedly random as an alternative outcome: that of a relative impelled towards science and reason by the same "near-death" experience. The critical ingredient present was a suggestion of a specific flavor. And we all know that fables have a much higher likelihood of "getting at" a human brain than more complex, less selfishly indulgent rational bedtime stories.

It knows only that it needs, commander. But, like so many of us, it does not know what.
- Spock

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by mike the wiz, posted 04-26-2004 9:51 PM atrejusan has not replied
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 Message 12 by SRO2, posted 04-29-2004 6:18 PM atrejusan has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 10 of 12 (102920)
04-26-2004 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by atrejusan
04-26-2004 9:05 PM


The combination of these curses: our already existing, billion-years-old answer to death (procreation) is supplanted by a psychotic, nebulous, self-indulgent fantasy.
If only you could back that up with something other than your opinion.
In response to the topic: humans fear death; humans are born without wisdom;
I don't fear death and yes - you don't have any wisdom. Only when you are born again will you have it. The first time = no wisdom, ofcourse. As can be seen by your posts.

This message is a reply to:
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6156 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 11 of 12 (102927)
04-26-2004 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by atrejusan
04-26-2004 9:05 PM


You AGAN?
Atrejusan, I have only by coincidence noticed this post by gandering through threads, but you have now indirectly(please hit 'reply' on a post you want to reply to, that way their attention is called to it)
replied to me 3 times with a condecending tone and now you bring up the personal thing as a gravitation to fairy tales. Are you TRYING to annoy me or something?
atrejusan writes:
In response to someone who mentioned a relative who was impelled towards Christianity on the merit of a "near-death" experience: that's what I call providential. It is as decidedly random as an alternative outcome: that of a relative impelled towards science and reason by the same "near-death" experience.
First, please explain how one could be compelled toward science and reason after looking down at himself on the operating table and being drawn toward a white light. For one thing gravity wouldn't take kindly to someone floating up with no apparent push or pull; unless you count the light but then the question of how the light pulls and where the light came from come up.
atrejusan writes:
The critical ingredient present was a suggestion of a specific flavor. And we all know that fables have a much higher likelihood of "getting at" a human brain than more complex, less selfishly indulgent rational bedtime stories.
Name one rational bedtime story; I never heard one as a kid and I darn sure won't be telling MY children stories that don't include knights and princesses that live happily ever after.
Who died and made you decider of whose perception is biased and whose isn't, anyway? You're really walking the line here.

Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by atrejusan, posted 04-26-2004 9:05 PM atrejusan has not replied

  
SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 12 (103875)
04-29-2004 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by atrejusan
04-26-2004 9:05 PM


Reckon what all that means?

This message is a reply to:
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