"THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO

Thanks RAZ for being a standup person willing to investigate and respond. If you viewed the entire video you could easily see that this is far too big for faking. There's just too much there and to fake it would be impossible. First of all, to fake you'd have to find the unusual coral encrusted wheel and axle shaped forms in quantity in one place. Secondly, I don't know of any critics who are charging these exhibitions to be purposely fraudulent. They were done by credible people from secularist universities, Lennart Moller being from Stockhome University. Believe me, even as a skeptic, you'd find the small investment in this very professional and interesting video worth every penny of it.
Thirdly, you'd have two separate credible researchers to be fraudulent, the one who researched the Saudi side and the one who researched the Sinai side. Likely that's because only fundamentalist creationist organizations and circles who believe in the supernatural and the miraculous will touch it. The rest will avoid it simply to cover their own preconceptions. The Saudis won't allow it, but the design of the exposed wheels fits the period of the particular dynasty. As much as your ideological peers would like to refute this, no one has to my knowledge. Secularist academia simply ignores it because of their bias and the fact that to acknowledge it would require the acknowledgement of the supernatural. The video explains that the wood being rotted, to attempt to remove it would be to destroy it. And then, the Saudis forbid it's removal so to display it would prove theft. Besides, if removed the skeptics could claim it came from another place. This way nobody can refute. I've done some reading and see that the coral polyps must attach themselves to something hard to begin growing and it prefers waters less than 60 meters. I suppose chariot parts and wheels being the only such things on a sandy bottom would serve this purpose. I plan to do more reading on this subject. In the mean time from what I've learned, you're correct that the wood would not likely be the nourishment. I will have to check again on the metals. I believe gold, silver and lead were mentioned, but whether this would be an aloy or whether it was decoration, etc, I'm not positive.
If it contains lead that may be indicative as to why the coral did not attach to it.

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It places it in the 18th dynasty, sometime in the 14th century BC.

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This question is more for young earthers than for Buz, but how does this line up against the geneology time-telling method for biblical literalists? (i.e., add up the life span of everyone in the Bible and get roughly 6000 years.) Do the dates jive?

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

But not operating in his field of expertise. An article based on the purely scientific artifacts, dating and distribution, would not be avoided. Such articles on other items of historical artifacts also covered in the bible have been. A proper scientific expedition going through channels to get cooperation from Saudis et al should have no difficulty. Again, mostly free of growths after 3000 years would be a wondrous achievement. The US Navy would be extremely interested as the annual cost of antifouling the fleet is astronomical and they are specifically excluded from governmental regulations on heavy metal use. I also wonder why it is not buried by the lighter, mobile sand that blankets the area. It should have sunk out of sight. I think you would agree that this picture could be faked by placing a wheel in the sand and putting a lump of coral over it.{{added by edit}}
one sources says "The wood inside the gold "veneer" was deteriorated, which made it very fragile and for that reason, he has not attempted to retrieve it from the water."another source says "... the gold wheel is still there, wedged so tightly in the bottom that it feels like it's been cemented in."So which is it? Fragile or firmly wedged?enjoy[This message has been edited by RAZD, 04-26-2004]

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

To clarify my position, I believe the animals and man are about 6000 years old, the age of the earth, sun and moon being undetermined. The Biblical geneological record would put this sometime in the 14th century BC. The design of the wheels fit that period which was in the 18th Egyptian dynasty.

Moller has all the sophisticated equipment necessary to do a very professional job of research including the recording, tracking, underwater submarine camera equipment as well as a suitable vessel and crew to do the work. As I have already stated, clearly this lends a whole lot more credibility to the Bible and to the Biblical Jew/Christian God Jehovah than it does for the cause of the Muslim god Allah and the Quran. The Saudis have a vested interest in keeping this low profile. Thus the guards and fences around the region of this Sinai site and other evidence in the region. According to the video, the Saudis are not allowing any specimens removed for dating and analysis. It's not likely an extremely heavy wheel, but would have a relatively thin overlay of this metal over it. This wheel may have enough gold, lead or whatever to render it unsuitable for growth. Regardless, the other wheels are adequate for evidence, imo, without this wheel. The wheel certainly is not going to be solid gold or gold alloy. It would be far too heavy for chariot warfare. What is your source? In either case, it's not all that important, imo, with all the other evidence.

RAZ I see your link source for the statement about the wheel being wedged. The video simply states that to remove it would be to destroy it because the wood would be gone. It certainly does not appear to be wedged by anything from viewing the picture. If it's "cemented" it's possible the underside may be "cemented" in hard sediment. The video does not say anyone tried to remove it and after all, that's forbidden.

BuzsawYou said

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As I have already stated, clearly this lends a whole lot more credibility to the Bible and to the Biblical Jew/Christian God Jehovah than it does for the cause of the Muslim god Allah and the Quran.

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Since Allah IS the same God as the god of Christians and Jews, why would it be more credible for for the Bible than for the Quaran?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

1. As I have shown to be the case in past threads, the Muslim god and the Christian god are not one and the same, the proper name of the Christian god being, Jehovah (Hebrew, YHWH/Yahweh)meaning "the existing one" or the "I am" and the Muslim god being simply Allah meaning "god." Jehovah is not recognized by Muslims as the true god. Only Allah is. It would be off topic to explain this in detail here, but some place in the archives is my names of God thread and another on Christianity and Islam being 180 degrees apart. Both theads deal with this.2. The Quran does not recognize Jews as being favored by God in such a manner that he would miraculously deliver the Jews from an Egyptian Pharoah. As we all know, Israel is not a favored people by any Muslim nation.

You've shown no such thing. And the fact is that Muslims recognise Moses as one of the three greatest prophets. Therefore confirmation of the Exodus story (which this is not) would be a significant support for their religion.

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To clarify my position, I believe the animals and man are about 6000 years old, the age of the earth, sun and moon being undetermined.

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Ah. My mistake.

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The Biblical geneological record would put this sometime in the 14th century BC.

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Do you have a link or something to how the geneological record is done? I'd like to read up on it a bit.

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

Paulk, true or false? The Exodus crossing benefited the Jews and hurt the allies of Arabs?True or false? Islam does not recognize the Jew/Christian god, Jehovah?Why does Saudi Arabia refuse to let anyone research and date the artifacts at the Neweibal crossing and allow research around the burnt mountain?

Dan, I searched google for a Bishop Usher list of geneologies to no avail, but if you can find a Schofield Reference Bible there is an Usher date at the top of each page of the OT. Then there's the geneologies of Matthew and Luke. I have a Schofield Refernce Bible in case you have any specific questions. There must be a complete Usher list somewhere on the www.

Hey Dan,I know you were talking to Buz, but I note that he couldn't find any sites. Here are some that I have found.http://www.mazzaroth.com/...terThree/OTChronFloodToAbram.htmhttp://www.biblicalstudies.com/...miscstudies/chronology.htmBiblical Old Testament Chronology, can the genealogical conflicts be resolved?http://www.sacred-texts.com/time/timeline.htm

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AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

Yes. Islam recognizes the same God as the Jews and Christians.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I agree with RAZD that that would be amazing for wood to be free of growth after 3000 years. Does anyone know how long wood would last underwater? It seems to me that organisms would have eaten up any exposed pieces of wood, and after "3000 years!" i would think the wood would have long since decayed. The picture doesn't seem to show any amount of decay that I can see.I have been looking through the internet but am unable to find references on how long wood lasts under the ocean.