What makes you unbelieve Crash ?

No, there was no failure to understand, and there is no logical error--> Pink elephants can exist. I can paint it pink and put it on the shuttle for it's mission to planet Neptune. Why is that? --> Because these things exist already - they are based on realities - that is my only point.So you have two options.1. If you associate God with "pink elephants" or "easter bunnies" or even "mutating Spock insects" then you are saying God is based on reality.2. You can admitt this is a lame attempt to insult believers, and that "pink elephants" bare no relevance to God.So basically - you lose either way. It's no good touting Spock and making out you have all the necessary debate skills when you actually need to think before posting."Limited newbie brain" however, is what I am guilty of. But your approach to this forum is all wrong and you have seen AdminAsgara's thoughts on this. Some of your posts bare no relevance to the topic or the forum. This is the faith and belief section. If I walked into the science section waffling on about some invalid creationism argument, then I would be hammered by the wise. Infact, I done a similar thing recently. Well, it's the same here, unwarranted assumption hogwash banter bullweed is fit for slaughter - regardless of who is touting it. Fact is - like Asgara said, many here have no problem with science, including me and Born2Preach.

I find it hard to believe you have chosen to side with this newbie. It seems to me that you say one thing Schraff, but believe another. You say you think there is a possibility of God. You seem to always be arguing against that possibility. And you know that I myself do not see it as a bad thing necessarily, if we have different names for the one true God. Now you say I have arrogance because of my lack of doubt?I thought it was okay for me to believe in what I want? Where did I claim that? Can you quote - I have either forgotten through process of time or I didn't claim it.Men are not more important to women - and I would never argue such things. I don't claim that because we have always believed - he exists. I claim he exists.I chose to argue for Theists against the newbie, I was NOT attacking your side. You exclude all of them - I just reject one less. Are you saying you yourself still worship Pharoh?

Credit where credit is due - you have found my thoughts correctly. Only, you presume that people came up with the idea of God. I think they're too dumb to think up God. And I certainly think they are too dumb to come up with someone like Christ. It amuses me that people claim that we "made" God. Everything in me sees the opposite to this. Human's are too selfish to think up a God who rejects "the flesh". The bible is indeed full of laws which are too hard to follow. I doubt men could or would give themselves this hard time.Just look at todays society, and how it is the opposite to what the bible teaches. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. It insults my faith that people are so arrogant to actually claim my "God" as their invention. But then - the heart is desperately wicked and decietful above all things. And it also is written, people will lie to themselves and reject God, and that is when they are forsaken - which leads to such societies.

Faith in itself leads to no bad thing. If I trust in God, how will that cause any trouble? But do notice that is my only claim. I do not hold other religions in the same regard. There's no point in me pretending otherwise. It is written I shall have no other gods. To me, the bible and the wisdom therein does not come from man - nor the teachings thereof. The teachings are to live for God and spirit and to reject the flesh. If it was the inspiration of man, it would teach us to serve the flesh and other fleshly selfish teachings. Just look at how much man lusts after woman, for example: My flesh is also guilty of the thing, what then shall we do? We may survive a lot more, if we help each other = the spirit. We are without excuse. The nature of the Godhead is seen in the things which are made. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. Selfishness comes from nature as you rightly said = the flesh. Do not confuse the gathering of wheat for our families with the nature of the flesh. I also hunger, is that a selfish thing? I trow not. If I give my last piece of bread to you, shall I feel the spirit burn within me? - Indeed I will. It is possible to overcome ourselves, nothing shall be impossible with God. It is no bad thing that you try to do what is right. I have nothing to say against this part of your post. You unwittingly follow the teaching "do unto others as you would unto yourself". So then, maybe you are indeed fruit of a good tree, nevertheless, I will reserve judgement for my own self and seek not to judge you.

I have enjoyed your posts Unseul, and have percieved your discresion. Well done to you, for giving heed to good scripture. "He that listens to my sayings - and does them, builds his house upon a rock" (similar words). I don't want my genes to continue and/or indifferent. My genes are a product of nature, and the necessities of this life. Yet if God requires children of Abraham, he is able to raise them from a stone. I myslef - do not adhere to this evolutionary teaching. I prefer the spirit to the flesh, I always have. Love is God, and only love can conquer self-interest. Your problem is, that you ask your god evolution to explain all things to you via a biological doctrine. I say this NOT to offend you, but it strikes me as odd that so many answers come from this "evolution". I worship the Creator, not the creature. That "buz" is the beginning of feeling God. I cannot show that God exists, yet I know he does. If there is a way I could show he does then I would. You can truly test this with a prayer, like brother 1.6' did earlier in the thread. It is only by opening your mind to the possibility that you can see what happens next.You don't need a god - you need God. It is self-deceit to say you don't need God. Evolution cannot help you, it is not a god, it is just a theory about nature. If you cannot see the truth of Christ then you will not hear me either.People ask their god evolution - and it gives certain answers, yet it will not victor or replace God. It is best for us to leave it as a science that tells us "how" not "why". It is confusion.

Yet you do NEVER argue for God. Even you have argued with such things as design problems in humans etc. I have never known you to argue FOR the possibility of God. The evidence for God is so overwhelming it is laughable that you can say there is no evidence for God. Only in this present day - world of know-it-alls, could such a claim be made. Go ahead Schraff, tout that there is no evidence for God - it won't effect his existence. And doubt is useless to me. Doubt will only help the cause of unbelief, and hinder my progress. I have no reason to doubt, but you do. You have reason to doubt your belief that there is no God, and you have to come back to the truth because I know already that you know it. So you have no choice - it is your unavoidable destiny. Evolution can never be your replacement god, or your "new found truth". It is just a theory.

It is not because of our continuation - that I help others. I only help them because of the teachings of Christ. The spirit is indeed not sufficiently described as a "buz". It is a bit silly that evolution answers everything like this - it might aswell be called "defence against God and scriptures that tell us why". You see, your outlook or mindset comes up with the opposite to what the scriptures teach - meaning, if I have to be on the creation or evolution side - it will always be the creation side. Get out of the "why" section and we'll get out of the "how" section. I've a feeling NosyNed will respond to this. There's that silly evolution philosophical outlook again. You are not a hindrance. Your sole purpose is not to please or serve evolution. Even if you don't ask for help - you are entitled to it. You are more than the sum of your parts, you are of God. You are not just an animal, you have a soul that needs not nor depends on any evolution. Indeed, I also like laughter - and generally acting a fool. My name is "wiz" because I am a "wiz" in bullsh*t, which I am proud of. Do not be a slave to evolution. It is good science, but it cannot give you all of the answers. You are being unfair to yourself. Readt the NT - not the OT, but this time, read with an open mind. Even "pretend" to take it as Gospel. [This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-28-2004]

It's God who tells us how important we are. I am not too interested how much I matter. If there was no bible, I would probably assume very little significance - I still do in a way, hence my empathy or admiration for atheists. I too think I am a mere spec on the window of time. It is God who tells me otherwise. Read John chapter one, and listen to the part about the word becoming flesh. I am glad you will read - but don't be a hindrance to God by not believing. B- hey - good grade! Now be a good boy and read your bible. If you believe you score an A. Bother me not with hindrance of unbelief like when you read the Old Testament and laughed at it.You should concentrate on Christ's words also - and see how he is indeed the Messiah. Do not be hard of heart and unbelieving. "My sheep will hear my voice" - take your chance to hear the truth.

Bump

I didn't call you a know it all, I said in a world of know it alls. Only - I didn't call you a know it all in the first place, so now you call me it ans, and ,and.....I will admitt that I am completely sure that God exists. But you have to understand - I really am nutty. Evidence for me would be our own existence, yet it is more of a "belief", it's not like I am forcing this topic onto you or science Schraf. (aharrgh hargggh...cries and moans - Schraffy hates me, tears role down cheeks. ) Fair enough, atleast you haven't dismissed the truth altogether. You do realize though, that I have never been a suicide bomber. Maybe those guys are the bad guys, and not the christians who you argue with everyday on this forum. (Me ) But does this mean that you imply that people of belief become suicide bombers? Isn't that a generalization? - I have belief and no doubt in God, yet surely that doesn't logically make me a suicide bomber. So you agree I have good reason to believe then? And my prayers are indeed answered - thanks. Your lack of faith is disturbing - Darth vader. Tee hee hee, don't encourage me. Because so many people come up with such strange things. People in this forum have given me "evolutions answers" to things like religious experiences etc. Saying that the "God" part of the brain is because of evolution. People are snake fascinated with evolution. They ask it questions like it is a god, and make there own answers. If only they would stick to the science of it and not the philosophy, or "why". Many here, including you, have said how we are just evolved and are another animal, and that seems to imply we are not made in the image of God. Basically, your theory is an obsession to people, they worship the creature because of it, and not the Creator. Give God the glory. Also, other things. Apparently "samaritan acts" or giving to charity is now explained as "looking after the genes of humans for our selfish continuation".
Such a teaching makes out that an act of unselfishness is infact selfishness.Many other things make God's words of none-affect. And seek to destroy the truth of the bible. And look here, there is even a "bible forum" so you can attack my so called "religion". I could go on, but basically you people have got my dander up with your obsessionf for the evolution mind.

Okay - fair enough. I am not attacking you though, as others have shown this same kind of "evolution" philosophy. I am glad you are here Unseul, immediately I find your posts very interesting and you have a pleasant manner. That's not selfish, as it has no evolutionary tendancy. You have summed it up correctly super bunny. (This proves super bunnies are real). The fact is we are all partakers in a specific mindset. If we are honest - we cannot make any conclusion really. I myself think that it comes down to the individual. That's why I posted this in the belief section.Schrafinator said that she once had a weak faith, she seems to not therefore, understand my own faith and so she usually ends up talking about evidence.PS> Thanks for your support in the other thread, where Rrhain spoke against me.

Don't be cynical, if I set traps I usually boast about it afterwards. But why is it you always bring up the evidence arguments in this F&B section? You have admitted that you used to have a weak faith, maybe you can't fully understand the nature of my faith and think it is arrogant, because of your lack of such faith. I am firm in my beliefs, - yes. But I don't understand why that should make me arrogant. I don't have a lock on the truth - I just am persuaded that I know it and that you can also know it. I claim to know the truth - yes, but it is because I am fully persuaded in my own mind. I am not forcing you to accept the truth, I am just telling you about the truth I know of. And all I done is take the contra-positive from that. People who do become suicide bombers are without doubtBut that doesn't logically mean that all believers without doubt will become suicide bombers.My faith and belief is from Christ - I believe in him and his teachings above all things, therefore I would never seek to take a life. So - maybe I am not your enemy, maybe those who don't believe in Christ but in other things are your enemy. Yet here you are, making me your enemy yet I do not endanger you.And here we have a biblical section for people to attack my God - like our faith is the enemy, it's almost as if we get the blame for those events rather than the necessary partakers of different beliefs. But I talk about belief in Christ and his teachings and my belief in him - wow, what a danger I am (sarcasm)- Did those bombers believe in Christ? I don't have religion or correctness. I am a believer who has a faith and cannot boast. Boasting is without effect. No-one can now boast. Read Romans. I am wrong about many things - even about some biblical things, sometimes I am indeed wrong, and have not interpreted correctly. I am fallible. I have. Here's another; "Man believes in God - let's see what evolution has to say about it......Evolution says it is necessary - so that we conquer our death-anxiety,..."My answer would be - "Stick to the how and I'll stick to the why." Good answer - and it is definately one answer if not the answer. See - even I have no literal "rule" for your interpretation - I'm open to your suggestion. I said your theory is an obsession to people - not scientists. Many here try to have a solely scientific outlook, concerning the ToE. Others have an evolution philosophy, Unseul is a good example of someone who asks evolution for an answer to almost everything. Erm, No! I am saying all those who worship the creature are predicted in the bible, and avoiding the truth won't save you from this fact. People have warped their worldviews so that evolution gives them an answer to everything. I know that Christ is the truth and my belief starts with him. Without him I am a walking flesh serving a body alive in sin = serving flesh and this life.Also - I never said that God is limited to a nomadic tribe. Many were made believers.As for your last statement, shouldn't you have a forum which is for a particular book in which people have sought to justify crashing into buildings? Shouldn't you be refuting the claims of that book?Instead - because we hold true to our belief in God and the things that are said in the bible - you attack us instead. And for what? - Because we come to a different conclusion about evidences - big deal.Edited to delte rant which was self-righteous.[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 05-01-2004]

Schraff, answer me. Message #151.
....Doubting Thomas. Get back, get back!

You have made a decision with that knowledge, yet your knowledge is limited. I know you seek proof, maybe our talks can continue in this topic. I still think you have not asked God himself if he exists. You should make that prayer - don't be a doubting Thomas like Schraff, open your mind and ask Christ about his existence, then you can set your sights on the realities of heaven.

Actually - you know very well what I mean. I mean do they believe in Christ as the son of God. Are you saying all Muslim extremists are christian? Oh boy - that really is desperate and is offensive aswell. It proves my point that you probably blame christians for 9.11. Now that truly is a bit of one-sided hogwash posting from you egg.By this logic, even every Muslim is christian. And they all believe Christ is the son of God, I expect them to pull down their Muslim churches shortly.I have faith in Christ as the Messiah. If you are saying that these extremists are christians because, quote: "Actually, they (911 bombers) believed in ALL of Christ's teachings." Then that is the most ludicrous statement I've ever heard. What? Did they just forget those teachings Christ said about "loving your enemy" when they crashed the planes? Or maybe "even if you get angry with your brother then you are in danger of the commandment". What - they adhere to these teachings? - Oh yeah, they must of had a head full of quotes from Christ.(sarcasm)I suppose if they believe in Christ's teachings, they also adhere to the resurrection? Don't insult my intelligence.Oh dear, the true motives of the individuals here are coming nicely into focus. I'll respond to you later Schraff. Meanwhile I'll have to leave the forum, in total shock and disbelief of what I have just read.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 05-06-2004 03:10 PM