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Author Topic:   Avogadro's number vs. the Kofh Number
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 757 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 5 of 55 (103433)
04-28-2004 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Wounded King
04-28-2004 6:05 AM


Yes, we're switching arbitrary values. Prior to 1961, physicists defined unit atomic weight as 1/16th of the mass of an oxygen-16 atom. Chemists defined it as 1/16th of the abundance-weighted average of the three oxygen isotopes present in the Earth's atmosphere. Since then it has been, by definition, 1/12 of the mass of a carbon-12 atom. (Before 1925, it was something different, but my chemistry books aren't that old.
Avagadro's number is just the number of atoms or molecules in the mass in grams of a substance that is numerically equal to the molecular weight, so it's really quite arbitrary.
And by the way, Avagadro's number of avocados does, in fact, have the same mass as Earth's Moon for avocados of the unusually large mass of 122 grams each. (or 61 grams each if avocados are naturally diatomic....)

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Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by kofh2u, posted 04-29-2004 12:59 PM Coragyps has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 757 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 10 of 55 (103499)
04-28-2004 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by SRO2
04-28-2004 6:09 PM


Re: Molecular fudge factors.
Depends on the element, and the source of the sample. The ratios of the various isotopes can vary enough for some elements to throw you off before the 4th decimal. Particularly if you're talking about Earth water vs. comet water.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by SRO2, posted 04-28-2004 6:09 PM SRO2 has replied

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 757 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 20 of 55 (103775)
04-29-2004 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by kofh2u
04-29-2004 12:59 PM


Re: arbitrary?
Do you mean that the present number, 6.0221 x 10^23 is not a factual head count of the molecular or atomic particules in a sample of a substance?
It's a factual head count when you define an atomic mass unit as 1/12 of the mass of a carbon-12 atom and a gram as 1/1000 of the mass of that chunk of platinum-iridium alloy that's in Paris as the standard kilogram. If you go back to the pre-1961 definition of an amu, the number will change a little. I don't much care which it is - 15% hydrochloric acid still eats dolomite in these oil wells out here no matter what the third and fourth decimals in Avogadro's number are.

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 Message 19 by kofh2u, posted 04-29-2004 12:59 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 757 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 26 of 55 (103813)
04-29-2004 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by kofh2u
04-29-2004 3:54 PM


Re: hydrogen at one mass unit
Kofh, you might want to take this up with the IUPAC, the body that decides such things. And also, you might want to cut back on whatever that is you're smoking.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 757 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 38 of 55 (104453)
04-30-2004 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by kofh2u
04-30-2004 10:00 PM


Re: kofh's Number = 5.9755 x10^23
Do we all agree so far in this?
Absolutely not. Like Melchior said - go find a freshman chemistry book and read about binding energy.

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 Message 36 by kofh2u, posted 04-30-2004 10:00 PM kofh2u has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 757 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 45 of 55 (104582)
05-01-2004 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by kofh2u
05-01-2004 12:49 PM


Re: Now,...your turn.
Where do you place YOUR bet? Regardless of the priesthood at tge international society, what is the best actaul head count for it isn't in this list.
WTF are you babbling about now? Why don't you just decide what you really want it to be, and declare it to be so within the metes and bounds of Kofhland? I won't stand in your way.....

This message is a reply to:
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