Christian Evolutionists: How does that work? A Q&A session

You ask someone who is clearly on tender feet on this subject, such a question. In the beginning God created.....it does not say whose beginning.....his?......he has no beginning. Therefore, this planet and the universe are most certainly, but not provably, very old. Evolution means more than just the opposite of creation. All of us evolve from miniscule to adulthood to old age and death. If that is not evolution, then what is? We are asked by 'evolutionists' to believe that everything that is, started from nothing. That is just not possible. Something must have basis in something.

I don't think anyone asks anyone to believe that something evolved from nothing, except Creationists. Also, as a Christian, I think it is very easy to prove that the universe is very old.Go outside at night and look up at the stars. The question I would ask you is, are those stars there?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

this is well-said. On track? Searching and never giving up? Ready to espouse new information gleaned painstakingly from the right source and not letting ismisms interfere with what you read, see, and by that inimitable pressure the Holy Spirit applies? It is well with yourself. I see a believer in another outfit. The earth is not young? Who would proclaim it so when the scriptures say......'in the beginning god created'.....whose beginning. Why did you change your mind about God? Nature is exactly what you say it is - except it is no accident.

run

PecosGeorge, You have described ontogeny. Although biological evolution does concern itself with ontogeny, it is more to do with the study of the evolution of ontogeny, rather than simply trying to understand the developmental mechanisms involved (which are important, naturally) that lead an embryo to become an adult multicellular organism.The word "evolution" can be applied to many things, but when we say evolution with respect to Darwin et al we mean biological evolution, & it doesn't restrict itself to ontogeny. "Evolutionists" aren't the best people to ask about the big bang etc. You would be better served by a physicist/astronomer/cosmologist. Evolutionists by definition are concerned with biological evolution only.Secondly, nobody said it came from nothing, it was just before spacetime. Variable fields interacting with vacuum fluctuations. In which case there would be a universe sooner or later. These things are purported to always have been in existence.Mark[This message has been edited mark24, 05-03-2004]

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"Physical Reality of Matchette’s EVOLUTIONARY zero-atom-unit in a transcendental c/e illusion" - Brad McFall

Thank you, Mark. To always have been there - must needs have come from somewhere. Where? Before space time? Where? Before that? Where? The concept is illogical and we are asked to believe it. But then, who defines logic?
Thanks again.

PecosGeorge, What a hypocrite.It was YOU who said God always existed, why can't fields & fluctuations always have existed?Logic, for your edification, is about consistency, please display some.Mark[This message has been edited mark24, 05-03-2004]

why can't God be among other things a field and a fluctuation that has a consciousness of itself and the power to create a thing that is capable of self improvement over time ???...My God is not sum bearded, crusty, old white dude in a gilded chair with a big stick and an attitudeand where the hell did Zach go ???

Ringokid, Why can't he be a beardy, crusty, old white dude in a gilded chair with a big stick and an attitude, if he exists at all?Mark

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"Physical Reality of Matchette’s EVOLUTIONARY zero-atom-unit in a transcendental c/e illusion" - Brad McFall

...well Mark, to a majority of fundamental christians he is, seems a bit ludicrous thoughthe omnipotent creator looks and acts like santa in his nightie unless you're evil then he gets his stick out and...nah...that's just silly

who said God always existed? Thank you. Don't mind the credit.
Your equation, however, is unbalanced. It is one thing for God, a being, to have always existed and another for things to have always existed. Logic is in the eyes of the beholder and so is consistency. Stuff/things are made, chemicals, matter of all kind. It doesn't just pop out of nowhere. As for hypocrite? I've been called worse.

Damn! I'm glad that's all cleared up now!

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El sueo de la razn produce monstruos. - Francisco Goya

PecosGeorge, And what exactly is that elusive little "thing" that makes you logical & consistent in saying God always existed, but other entities can't of? You have no evidence whatsoever that the fundamental particles & energy that the universe consists of is made. Which leads you to commit a logical fallacy; circular argument. So that you can infer creation, you have to accept without evidence your conclusion before you can accept your premise.In order to assert that god & other entities are qualitatively different regarding the argument at hand, you will have to do better than spoon up a classic logical flaw.Given you don't have a scooby as to whether matter/energy was made or not, you have no reason to claim that the universe & whatever preceded it could not have existed forever, whereas god did. See paragraph 1 in this post, & try again. Thus far this is the most believable thing you've said. If you can't logically separate god & everything else regarding your assertion that god can be inferred to have forever existed, but nothing else can, then you are indeed guilty of hypocrisy unless you retract the claim.Mark

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"Physical Reality of Matchette’s EVOLUTIONARY zero-atom-unit in a transcendental c/e illusion" - Brad McFall

"Evolution means more than just the opposite of creation. All of us evolve from miniscule to adulthood to old age and death. If that is not evolution, then what is? "Explain that to me.Growth does not equal evolution.Evolution has to do with reproduction and survival of the fittest. It does not apply to an individual creature. This message has been edited by AdminSylas, 05-04-2004 11:37 PM

Isn't this natural selection?With regards to evolution...did you all know scientists have never found any fossils that show one creature evolving to the next. They find one creature and another creature that has similarities to the first and assume they were connected in some way or evolved from one another. I want some proof. Who has it? Evolution sounds more like jumping from one to another to me. If that's the case then they aren't evolving they are being created. I want proof. -Z is back.