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Author Topic:   Does teaching of evolution cause social decay?
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 137 (105547)
05-05-2004 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by almeyda
05-05-2004 5:10 AM


quote:
How can mere chemicals produce love, purpose or concepts or right and wrong?
Many social animals also show traits that seem akin to love, purpose, and concepts of right and wrong. You have stated in another thread that you don't believe other animals have souls. So how do you account for love, purpose, and concepts of right and wrong?
quote:
Morals then just become a matter of ones opinion.
This is false. I am an atheist, I believe that there is no God, that the material world is all that exists. And yet, I have found myself doing things against my own narrow self-interest, sometimes gladly, sometimes with great reluctance, because I was compelled to do what I felt was the moral thing to do. Morality isn't just someone's opinion. It is a deep feeling that is partly innate and partly taught.
quote:
Everyone is doing what is right in their own eyes.
This isn't necessarily the fault of evolution. This is the result of the dominant ideology of extreme libertarianism and hyper-capitalism, practiced by people like Ken Lay and the folks at Enron. Funny how the Religious Right (at least here in the US) gives its political support to a capitalist ideology that is based on selfishness and a lack of moral commitment.
The main problem with this argument is that just because you think that evolution leads to unpleasant conclusions has nothing to do with whether it is true or not. Evolution is judged to be valid based on the evidence that supports or refutes it. How you feel about the consequenced is, regrettably, irrelevant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 5:10 AM almeyda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 12:59 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 137 (105626)
05-05-2004 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by almeyda
05-05-2004 1:25 PM


Re: ...
quote:
The point is there isnt even a basis for morality!
Exactly! Evolution is not a basis for morality. It is a description of what we observe in biological species, and an explanation of what we observe. It is a scientific theory that attempts to describe reality. It has nothing to do with morality, just like the theory of gravitation or Maxwell's equations have nothing to do with morality.
Morality has to come from your religious/spiritual/philosophical beliefs. It cannot come from science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 1:25 PM almeyda has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 137 (105944)
05-06-2004 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by almeyda
05-06-2004 4:19 AM


Re: ...
quote:
Chiroptera - So you just admitted that each must listen to his innerself or religion to feel what is right.What if i feel like killing people and raping girls?.Im being totally consistant arent i? Sure i can face punishment by the majority but if i can get away with it,then so be it.Besides who are you to tell me its wrong?.
But you Christians and other religionsists also just do what you feel is right. So you believe in God, so what? So do the Muslims, and you have very different moralities and ethics. There are Muslims who blow up other people for their god, and there are those who just want to live in peace with their neighbors. There are Christians who want to help others and make the world a better place, and there are Christians who claim god wants the White Race to be dominant and rule the other races. There are so many competing claims about what God wants and what is true morality, and in the end you just end up doing what you think is best anyway. In my case, I don't claim to be speaking for God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by almeyda, posted 05-06-2004 4:19 AM almeyda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by almeyda, posted 05-06-2004 12:37 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 137 (105954)
05-06-2004 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by almeyda
05-06-2004 12:37 PM


Re: ...
As I've said, many people base their "philosophies" on the Bible, and come up with many different ideas of morality. If you want me to be impressed with the Bible as the sole source of morality, you'll have to demonstrate that one can come up with a consistent morality out of it.
And many who do get their morality from the Bible act in very reprehensible ways. I still do not see how the Bible can be used as a guide for morality when many people who do use it behave in such a repugnant manner.
No, if I'm going to have to rely on my own sense of right and wrong I'm going to do so honestly, without pretending that somehow god is guiding me.
And creationism has never been a challenge to the theory of evolution. At least not in science. It is only in the political arena that the creationists can manage some successes, and that is only in places like the U.S. where the educational system is so abysmal and where the majority of the population are excluded from the political process anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by almeyda, posted 05-06-2004 12:37 PM almeyda has not replied

  
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