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Author | Topic: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Muslims recognise Moses as one of the three greatest prophets. Paulk, true or false? The Exodus crossing benefited the Jews and hurt the allies of Arabs? True or false? Islam does not recognize the Jew/Christian god, Jehovah? Why does Saudi Arabia refuse to let anyone research and date the artifacts at the Neweibal crossing and allow research around the burnt mountain?
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Dan, I searched google for a Bishop Usher list of geneologies to no avail, but if you can find a Schofield Reference Bible there is an Usher date at the top of each page of the OT. Then there's the geneologies of Matthew and Luke. I have a Schofield Refernce Bible in case you have any specific questions. There must be a complete Usher list somewhere on the www.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
I agree with RAZD that that would be amazing for wood to be free of growth after 3000 years. Does anyone know how long wood would last underwater? It seems to me that organisms would have eaten up any exposed pieces of wood, and after "3000 years!" i would think the wood would have long since decayed. The picture doesn't seem to show any amount of decay that I can see. I have been looking through the internet but am unable to find references on how long wood lasts under the ocean. Neither the video nor I has said there was any wood left. The video explains that the coral formation had attached to the wheels and whatever wood was there is likely gone. The wood and metal would have likely supported the coral until the coral was strong enough to form the shape of some of the wheels and axles.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Hi Cromwell. If you viewed the video you could readily see that it would be neigh unto impossible to pin all the debris there is down there at this site, especially to have coral formations the shape of axles and wheels pinned down there. It just didn't happen. You should views the video. It's worth the small investment.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
The Exodus - and Joshuah's conquest - have run into severe problems because of the archaeological data. It is not so much the terrain as the fact that after the expulsion of the Hyksos the Egyptians had quite strict border controls and could have stopped anyone leaving. THere is also an absence of the evidence expected if a very large body of people - as the usual translation of Exodus have it - were in Sinai for an extended period of time. A good starting point is _The Bible Unearthed_ by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman. ..........And a good stopping point is the site of the imperial evidence that the Biblical scriptures are correct about the Hebrews crossing the sea.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Hi Brian. It's late and gotta hit hay, but I'll address this now before retiring.
So it tells us right here that the Red Sea was not the scene of the Israelite sea-crossing miracle, the text informs us that that they passed through the midst of the sea, then , after another three days journey, they arrived at the Red Sea. So what will it be Buzz, did they pass through the Red Sea, and then three days later they arrived at the Red Sea, how does that work? Here's how it likely worked. Note that in verse 8 they "passed through the midst of the sea into the wilderness." This is the crossing of the (un-named) sea. Then the text proceeds to detail every encampment of their itinerary. They went here and there and by the way, they also arrived on the shore of the Red Sea again, but please note that it doesn't say that they crossed it this time. They likely encamped by it again on their looooong wilderness journey, but this time on the East shore of Aqaba. The bottom line to all this is that the imperial evidence is there at the Aqaba sandbar. The chariot junkyard is there and there's no reason under heaven for a mess of chariot debris to be in the middle of any sea. There's the likely evidence on the Arabian side also that Mt Sinai is really over there and there's other stuff near the mountain indicating they were likely there. There's also the split rock with evidence of the water flow. You need to view the video to understand all the evidence there is before debunking it as nonsense. The waters of Egypt were all turned blood red, likely including the Red Sea, according to scripture, not only once, but twice, once by Moses and Aaron and again by the Egyptian magicians and sorcerers. so Red is a likely title for the blood red waters. Your Reed Sea thing is very controversial and nobody has proven it to be credible, imo. I need to be outa town tomorrow, but will try to get back to responding to more when I can.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Well that's a clear message from you Buz. "Don't look at the facts. Stop before you see the truth" The evidence against Wyatt is clear - it's so strong that even creationist organidations reject his claims. So there's no reason to place any faith in the video at all - let alone to consider it the final word on the matter. If you really had confidence in your beliefs you wouldn't suggest stopping with one suspect source. You would have nothing to fear from a PROPER investigation. Paul, this just shows how closed and narrow minded you are being in all this. This video has nothing to do with Wyatt and the research has nothing to do with Wyatt's organization. Yes, Wyatt was there first as I understand it, but this is a more scientific approach which seems to prove some of Wyatt's claims to be credible. What's the matter? Are you afraid viewing the video and getting the whole story right might prove the supernatural dimension to exist in the universe and might affect your own life and thinking?
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Islamic scholars, while placing less emphasis on the Biblical accounts, have a strong incentive to prove them true. LOL. Not when that Bible exhonerates and blesses their enemies, Israel and when it prophesies the messianic future to be Jewish headed by Jesus the Jew. Same with this crossing. It was the Jews, enemies of Islam who were helped and Egypt, their ally who was devastated by it. You and others need to come to reality in your thinking on this.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Also Mark, if Muslims are allegedly so intent on proving the Bible true, why is it necessary for Christians to smuggle Bibles into many Islamic nations and why are some severely persecuted for being caught reading or teaching the Bible?? No, Saudi Arabia does not want this Exodus story verified or in the headlines, imo. I understand there's barb wire and guards around the area of the burnt mountain there in Saudi Arabia and that much of what's been researched there was researched covertly.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
I know you are referring to the Aqabah nonsense here, but what surprises me is that these people who are peddling this nonsense seem unaware that the accounts of the Exodus and Conquest have already been thoroughly investigated, and the Bible narratives have been rejected by all who have investigated them, Christian and non-Christian alike. There has been over one hundred years of archaeological investigation in the ancient near east and it is universally accepted that there was no mass Exodus of people out of Egypt either in the 15th or 13th century BCE, there was no deterioration in Egyptian power until later, there is no sign whatsoever of any group that can be identified as ?Israelite? in Egypt at all. Before heading outa town, I'm getting in a few responses in the order that the statements came. This is just not so, Brian. Everything has certainly not been thoroughly investigated and like other science, new technology, etc make for much better research. You should know that. You need to view the video before making these bogus statements with total disregard to the imperial evidence. The video begins with the discovery by an Austrian research team of archeologists who've found a city in Egypt which was occupied at that time by foreigners. The truth is finally coming out, Biran. Don't fight it. Look at it objectively before you discount it. That's true science. Gotta run for now.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Yes of course it was, I never said it wasn?t, I said and I will continue to say that the sea crossing of the Exodus group was not at the Red Sea. You have the problem then of how the Egyptians were drowned. The Biblical text is definitely not about a swamp of reeds or some shallows. It specifies a sea, does it not? Where then do you locate this drownable sea, large enough to cover 600 chariots?
Old Testament introductions, or footnotes, normally point out a translation error by informing the reader that yam sup should be translated as ?Sea of Reeds? or ?Reed Sea?. But the Red Sea was not crossed by the Israelites and the Hebrew Bible never claims that they did. The footnotes, opinions of readers, don't cut it. There is still a debate about whether it's Sea of Reeds or Red Sea. I'm still with the Red Sea since the waters were all turned blood red. Nearly all the translators are with me on this and they are the professionals, after all.
There is no deceit on my part, the only deceit is by these desperadoes who are punting these dodgy books and videos. Nothing dodgy about these books and videos, mefriend. This is not good science on your part to label them thus without first viewing or reading them. You know how you people go after creationists in this regard. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
A great deal of the problem about identifying the sea crossing of the Exodus party is that supporters of the Gulf of Aqabah scenario are not reading the Bible in context. The term yam sup can be found over 20 times in the Hebrew Bible. Now, if the passages where the Red Sea is mentioned are taken in context, it is obvious that yam sup can be linked to three different locations: The Gulf of Aqabah, the Gulf of Suez, and the location of the Exodus crossing (Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible: p.636). Now we have three different locations Buzz, just as Herodotus had three different areas that he referred to as the Red Sea, and we need to examine the verses that mention yam sup to find out which of the three areas each Bible verse is concerned with. Well, hows about doing it like you do in other science. Look at the imperial evidence and interpret accordingly.
Although still the subject of some debate between scholars, three passages that mention the yam sup have been linked to the Gulf of Suez: The point I'm trying to make is that the Red Sea can refer to either the sea proper, or either of the two gulfs in some of these scriptures. The evidence for the crossing now, imo, is clearly the Aqaba sandbar where the wheels are being photographed. That's the scientific approach to this.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Have a safe trip, and enjoy yourself. Brian. Stay safe Buz-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and may GOD watch over your coming and going. Thanks very much for the kind blessings, Brian and Jar. Mighty kind of you both and I do believe blessings do have an effect. My trip was good and productive.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Thirdly, it was a lot more than 600 chariots that were allegedly lost, it was every single chariot that was in Egypt! . Exodus 14:7 He took six hundred of the best chariots, along with all the other chariots of Egypt, with officers over all of them. Every single chariot in Egypt, all with three men aboard and no contemporary source notes that all these thousands of men, all of pharaoh?s armies suddenly lost in a few minutes at the Sea of Reeds. Tell me Buz, why wasn?t Egypt overrun by its enemies if Egypt?s armies were all lost? Why did Egypt continue to be the superpower in that area well into the 12th century BCE?
1. It does not say how many made the complete trip to the crossing. Likely for various reasons many did not complete the long rough journey. Pharoah may have ordered a contingent to stay behind and the best chariots to proceed all the way. Nobody knows. 2. Pharoah was a very stubborn and opressive dictator to allow his people to suffer so much rather than heed the miraculous warnings. Likely they got along quite well without him. After all, look what the good ole US of A could accomplish if we could get rid of three quarters of our government bureacracy.
They are not opinions, they are updated translations based on new information. The main theory here is the argument that yam sup should be translated as ?Sea of Papyrus? or ?Sea of Reeds?, because etymologically speaking sup is a loan word from Egyptian twf(y) which means ?papyrus/reeds? (Ward, W., 1974, The Semitic Biconsonantal Root SP and the Common Origin of Egyptian I CWF and Hebrew SUP ?Marsh(plant', Vetus Testamentum 24, pp.339-49) I beg to differ. They are oppinions of the secularist revisionists who have a problem with the supernatural.
We even have an excellent Egyptian source to support this theory ........and, after all, it is a theory.
No there isn?t Buz, who is debating this, certainly no mainstream scholar, and even the Jewish Publication Society have changed the Torah to read ?Sea of Reeds? or ?Reed Sea?. Who exactly is debating the translation? This site link totally blows your reed theory outa the water, pardon the pun. It is the best I could find. Please read it all carefully. [PDF] WHAT AND WHERE WAS THE “RED SEA,” “SEA OF REEDS,” OR “ ...Access denied - It takes you to Exodus 23:31, I Kings 9:26, Joshua 15:1, I Kings 9:26 and II Chronicles 8:7. These scripture texts document that the Gulf of Aqabah was the Biblical reference to the Red Sea (yom suph) the cited passages which use the term and that Elath at the Northern tip of the Gulf was the southern border of Israel, etc. Gotta run for now. Talk to you later when I can for more responses. I'm slow at this. Off to sabbath church tomorrow which is outa town and back sometime after dinner out. May God bless and enlighten you and yours.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Considering the fact that there had been thousands of years of conflict and commerce between Egypt and the Nation States of the Fertile Crescent I would be suprprised if you could not find relics of chariots and other war or commerce carriers all over the area. Finding Chariot Wheels does NOTHING to prove or disprove Exodus. All it shows is...wheels. WOW! Talk about strawman city!! This is it! 1. There are wheels attached to axles in the video. 2. They are scattered coast to coast, thickly scattered in some areas. 3. As stated, these wheel designs were contemporaneous only to the 18th dynasty of Egypt, odds nearly nill that there would be any other reason for their presence in any sea or gulf. Jar, you need some better stuff than this for sensible debate here, don't you think? The mods are calling creos on the carpet for lesser strawmen than some of what's being put forth here. The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Possibilty number two: A cargo vessel carrying chariot wheels foundered in a storm. .........and scattered them shore to shore? I don't think so. And why the axles attached? Read the thread. It's already been addressed.
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