Points on abortion and the crutch of supporters

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Well I can see where there are a lot of kids still waiting to get adopted, but they are older children and not new born babies.

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Why should that matter?Do they want a child or not?

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So your comment on waiting for the pro-lifers to adopt a child is not accurate.

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Look, the older children are just as unwanted as the infants. If the anti-legalized abortion folks cared so much about those children, it wouldn't matter to them if they were older, don't you think?

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I personally know a family who had to wait for 8 years to adopt a child, because they were unable to have there own child.

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I'll bet they were really, really, really specific in the kind of child they were willing to take.

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Now the situation with kids that are older to be adopted is a different topic all together.

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No, it's exactly the same topic. Do these people love children so much that they would be willing to take any child? Doesn't seem like it.

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I see nothing wrong with abortion, if the mother or the child or both will die as a result of labor. The death of two in place of one is senseless.

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Obviously, abortion under all cases except mentioned above *should* be illegal,

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Obviously, to you, but not to me, and not to millions and millions of people throughout the world.Why do you thhink you have the right to force a woman to incubate a fetus?

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but is not due to special interest groups and the subjective opinion of a single Supreme Court judge.

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Yeah, the "special interest group" of those with ovaries.

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We will see how long this remains true. Abortions are down, and pro-life foundations are getting more money every year. Heck, even the woman behind Roe vs Wade has changed sides and is now pro-life, after being convinced that abortion does women more harm than good. I fully expect to see Wade overturned within my lifetime, more probably than not, within ten years. And if the current trend in abortion rates continues, nobody will much care when it is.

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I suppose you will feel no resonsibility for the sharp increase in the number of women who die from illegal abortions, then, because that is exactly what will happen if abortion becomes illegal.How many unwanted children are you planning on adopting, gene?

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Oh, by the way, it seems that we (the US) actually have to *import* babies for adoption.

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That people are "importing" children is NOT because there aren't any children waiting to be adopted in this country.

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Despite this, recently I was debating a friend of mine on abortion when she pointed out that she had friends that needed adoption and never were, instead growing up under custody of the State. She stumbled when I asked her if she (or her friends) would prefer they had been killed before birth. Maybe she had too many friends?

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Lots of people have never been born, for all sorts of reasons.Are you saying we don't have enough people on the planet?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-06-2004 09:03 AM

Gene, when does a egg and sperm become human, and how can you tell it's human?

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Because an elective abortion kills another human being, such abortions are morally wrong.

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I suppose you have totally reversed your position on all military action, then, and become a pacifist, since you now believe that all killing of humans by other humans is morally wrong?

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Also, what does each side have to lose? The woman has only to endure nine months of inconvenience.

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Excuse me?If you think that it is merely inconvenient to be preganant and to endure labor and give birth, then it is clear that you have no clue and no respect for what women go through.You make it sould like pregnancy and labor are a walk in the park.It is much more likely for a woman to die in childbirth, and from complications afterwords, than from having a safe, legal abortion.Let me be clear; it is much safer for the health of the mother to have an abortion than to carry a child to term.

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An excessively permissive society.

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If you don't like it, why don't you go to China, or North Korea, or?I hear they are less permissive there.

Ah, just as suspected. Gene is great at talking the talk but refuses to walk the walk.I don't think that he would score any points with his other Mormon buds if they found out he was handing out condoms or helping women get birth control.It must be nice in your ivory tower, sheltered from the real world.

Hi Jackal,

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Well I can see where there are a lot of kids still waiting to get adopted, but they are older children and not new born babies. So your comment on waiting for the pro-lifers to adopt a child is not accurate. I personally know a family who had to wait for 8 years to adopt a child, because they were unable to have there own child.

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As Schraf has indicated, much of the 'waiting' has to do with the 'specific requirements' of the adopters. They only want white, healthy babies with certain features (haiur/eye color. etc.) What does the age have to do with anything? Why do you think there are older kids up for adoption on the first place?

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On the psychological factors, when you say they are not even able to get there hw done, so since they got pregnant its not really there fault, if you are trying to say this I can agree because young kids just arent educated enough.

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I am not saying that it is not their fault at all. Obviously, unless the girl was raped, the fault in part lies with her. Of course, the boy involved probably bears themost 'fault', as boys can be very coercive and forceful when it comes to sex. But yes, most teenagers (hell, many adults!) are not prepared psychologically to care for an infant. "Forcing" them to do so will be bad for all involved.

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I just think that letting them have an abortion is just giving them a get out of jail free card.

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Yes, better to punish them by forcing them to have the child. better to 'punish' the infant by forcing it to live life with a parent that didn't want it.

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Im just wondering how many cases there are of young kids who have an abortion and then get pregnant again. Im sure you have experience and can educate me on that.

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Probably quite a few. Many just don't learn. Many are involved in relationships wherein the male is against contraception but insistent on having sex. There are lots of factors involved.

I was talking about how if whoever it is doesnt get an abortion there are people waiting to adopt the new born baby. Yes it is sad but a lot of people dont want to adopt older children but thats not the topic, I am saying people do want to adopt new born babies. When you keep saying people only want white babies what about the people who are of a different race and want to adopt a child. I hope you dont think that only white people adopt kids. The family I knew wasnt that specific of a child they wanted, they just wanted a child and it took 8 years. They have money and a good home to live in and it still took that long, and they are a white couple and they adopted a child that wasnt. I know several familys who have done the same thing. A couple people from my church have adopted from other countrys as well. If you would like to talk about children from the ages of say 7-16 not getting adopted we can but this is about the stop of abortion that will bring new familys a new born baby because they can not have there own.

There are several reasons why there are older children up for adoption. My friend I grew up with was adopted because both of his parents were killed in a car accident and he had no other family members to live with. You keep giving the arguement about people who want specific requirements in the baby to adopt it. Do you have any experience with a couple that has done this or did you just hear a story? Im not denying that it happens but you are talking like everyone does this. I have told you a couple of storys about how people I have known has done the opposite and still had to wait. You also keep using the arguement that forcing them to care for an infant would be wrong. Let me just say if they are ok with having an abortion I am sure they would be ok to give it up for adoption. Thats just what I think, so I am not saying they should have to raise the child, give it up for adoption so another family who cant have children have a chance for a family.

This statement would work if the overwhelming majority of people that want to adopt children aren't white.

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The Laminator

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I think he pretty much answered this. When I asked him, suddenly he was very eager to talk about almost anything but the subject at hand.So I guess his answer was "absolutely none."

Do you have some information to let me see the overwhelming majority of people who want to adopt children are white?

In other words a fetus is the same as a lump of garbage to be tossed in the can, nevermind the head, and the arms, legs, beating heart.At least be honest and stop this intelligence insulting rhetoric that a fetus is a mass of undiscernaable cells.

When they amputate your arm, they throw it in the trash. Never mind that genetically, it's human.It takes more than arms and legs to be a human. It takes more than genes to be human.Let me ask you the same question I asked Gene - how many poor babies have you adopted lately? Why don't you take some personal responsibility already?