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Author Topic:   Bible and "kind"
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5929 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 65 of 148 (105608)
05-05-2004 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by almeyda
05-05-2004 12:05 PM


Re: ...
almeyda
If we are different from the rest then could you explain this verse from the bible?
Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
It plainly states that spirits are common to both so exactly what is the difference between us and them?
This message has been edited by sidelined, 05-05-2004 02:17 PM

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Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by jt, posted 05-05-2004 3:36 PM sidelined has replied
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5929 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 68 of 148 (105619)
05-05-2004 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by jt
05-05-2004 3:36 PM


Re: ...
JT
Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
From Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible we have the following definitions of the word ruwach as follows.
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
a) breath
b) wind
1) of heaven
2) quarter (of wind), side
3) breath of air
4) air, gas
5) vain, empty thing
c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
2) courage
3) temper, anger
4) impatience, patience
5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
7) prophetic spirit
d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1) desire
2) sorrow, trouble
f) spirit
1) as seat or organ of mental acts
2) rarely of the will
3) as seat especially of moral character
g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
4) as endowing men with various gifts
5) as energy of life
6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
7) never referred to as a depersonalised force
Which of these definitions would be appropriate in the context of the sentence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by jt, posted 05-05-2004 3:36 PM jt has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by jt, posted 05-05-2004 4:17 PM sidelined has replied
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5929 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 72 of 148 (105631)
05-05-2004 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by jt
05-05-2004 4:17 PM


Re: ...
JT
let us include a few more passages here.
Ecc 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for [there is] a time there for every purpose and for every work.
Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all [is] vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
It appears IMO that the author is conveying that there is no difference between the fate of men and that of beasts.Death claims both and in this context I do not think that disposition is the proper definition but,rather,spirit here is in reference to that which survives death,a soul if you will.

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5929 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 74 of 148 (105642)
05-05-2004 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by mike the wiz
05-05-2004 4:49 PM


Re: ...
mtw
Thanks for the rant LOL but the original intention of my bringing up this verse is to answer a statement by almeyda.
The truth is us humans are different from the rest because we all have Body,Soul & Spirit
I think that the verse makes this statement at the very least questionable.Almeyda,do you have anything to add?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by mike the wiz, posted 05-05-2004 4:49 PM mike the wiz has replied

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5929 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 143 of 148 (106635)
05-08-2004 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by jt
05-08-2004 2:57 PM


JT
It means that there are non-falsifiable ideas in the world that need examining.
If they are non falsifiable how do you propose to qualify them as actual phenomena?

"We cannot define anything precisely! If we attempt to, we get into that paralysis of thought that comes to philosophers, who sit opposite each other, one saying to the other, 'You don't know what you are talking about!' The second one says 'What do you mean by know? What do you mean by talking? What do you mean by you?', and so on."

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