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Author Topic:   Is there life before birth?
Cynic1
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 8 of 24 (108567)
05-16-2004 3:16 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by crashfrog
05-16-2004 2:55 AM


The problem is though, that in the Bible, God seems to plan, anticipate and react. A God who is outside of time logically cannot react. Also, there is a problem when you realize that for a God who is outside of time, no temporal marker can apply to him. Note this argument:
God creates X.
X first exists at time, t.
Therefore God creates X at t.
If the argument is valid, then it automatically rules out a timeless God, because it necessitates a God existing within time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by crashfrog, posted 05-16-2004 2:55 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 05-16-2004 3:27 AM Cynic1 has replied
 Message 15 by coffee_addict, posted 05-16-2004 4:19 AM Cynic1 has replied

  
Cynic1
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 12 of 24 (108572)
05-16-2004 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by crashfrog
05-16-2004 3:27 AM


Oh, we aren't talking about the Biblical God then? I'm sorry. Just out of curiosity, how was I supposed to know that?
A God who interacts with every point in time at once is not a God outside of time, but a temporally omnipresent God. An interesting third option that my argument does not address.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 05-16-2004 3:27 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 05-16-2004 3:51 AM Cynic1 has replied

  
Cynic1
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 14 of 24 (108574)
05-16-2004 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by crashfrog
05-16-2004 3:51 AM


No, nobody mentioned the Bible, but they did mention God. Generally, a mention of God means the Judeo/Christian God outlined by the Bible. When one means that God, then the Bible is the source we have to know that God by.
quote:
Fine, however you want to put it, that's fine. It's the same thing as what I've been saying.
Yeah, it is what you have been saying, I apologize. Generally, there are two schools of thought as to God's relationship to time. A God who exists outside of time and a God who is everlastingly within time. It was not clear to me up to my first post that you were advocating a third alternative, the temporally omnipresent. It wasn't until after my first post that it became clear that you weren't arguing the Aquinas' classic model of a timeless God. Again, I apologize.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 05-16-2004 3:51 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by crashfrog, posted 05-16-2004 8:22 AM Cynic1 has replied

  
Cynic1
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 17 of 24 (108578)
05-16-2004 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by coffee_addict
05-16-2004 4:19 AM


An argument can only be valid and false if the premises are wrong. Are my premises wrong?

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 Message 15 by coffee_addict, posted 05-16-2004 4:19 AM coffee_addict has not replied

  
Cynic1
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 20 of 24 (108593)
05-16-2004 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by crashfrog
05-16-2004 8:22 AM


Valid points. It is through a limitation in my own experience that I have only heard people refer to the Judeo/Christian God when they mention a divine being only by the name, "God."
This is easily resolved. Consider, then, my post not as an attempt to refute yours, but as a statement of my beliefs as to the nature of the Judeo/Christian God's relationship to time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by crashfrog, posted 05-16-2004 8:22 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by crashfrog, posted 05-16-2004 4:46 PM Cynic1 has not replied

  
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