Logic in Fantasy Action Movies (Spoilers!)

It's been a great summer already for folks who like a little occult or fantasy flavor in their action movies. I'm referring to such movies as "Hellboy" and "Van Helsing", both of which I enjoyed but were recieved with mediocre reviews. Caution! Potential spoilers ahead.Specifically the reviews complained that the plots of these movies weren't "logical", which I felt was an inappropriate criterion for reviewing a movie based on fantastic premises. For instance a review felt that Dracula's plot in Van Helsing - attempting to reproduce not by biting folks but by using Frankenstein's science to animate undead spawn - was "illogical."I don't get it. Were they puzzled by the trailer? Did they not understand that they were buying a ticket for a movie where a man hunts monsters that can't possibly exist in the real world?Why does the idea of a man turning into a wolf-beast or walking on the ceiling like a bat get a pass, but somehow, Dracula attempting to have kids is illogical?I don't understand where these reviewers come from, and personally, I really liked these movies. I didn't feel there was anything about them that stretched the limit of believability, because I didn't go into them expecting to see events that could plausibly happen in the real world.Instead I approached the movies with the verisimilitude that they were obviously meant to be seen under, a verisimilitude that's all-too-familiar to readers of science fiction and fantasy. I don't understand why a reviewer would swallow Lord of the Rings or Star Wars without objection and yet, not be able to grant Hellboy the same internal logic. If a person can't readily identify the spirit in which a movie is meant to be watched, do they have any business reviewing movies?Does anybody else have examples of movies they feel were reviewed under considerations that simply don't make sense for the genre?This message has been edited by crashfrog, 05-18-2004 06:39 AM

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--	Percy
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Van Helsing was an amazingly good movie. A pute, undilluted distilate of an action movie. It should be required viewing for film students everywhere.I don't think I have ever seen another movie that so purely and unwaveringly follows its purpose.

Hey, Crash!
I am in total agreement; as a fan of Sci-Fi, horror and fantasy, I hear the same complaints all the time.That being said. at the risk of losing any shred of respect, I will bring up Daredevil. One of my personal favorite comic book charactors, I think that the movie portrayed Matt Murdock accurately (except Kingpin was white, not that it mattered) as possible.
After leaving the theater, I overheard more than one person say that the "seeing through vibrations" was crap, and he didn't have any super-powers, and on and on. I liked the darkness (I would have loved to seen Tim Burton as the director; Batman was one of the best) and loneliness brought on by his self sacrifice. Dispense justice; first the legal way, as a lawyer. If that doesn't work, become the judge, hury and executioner.On the other, I also saw the last installment of the Matrix with people that were not Sci-Fi fans; they loved it, and I was so disapointed that I wanted to puch someone in the face. I love the story, but it reminded me of Return of the Jedi; George just wanted to get the damn thing finished.I guess if you are a fan of the genre(s), then you'll get it.

Mr. Jack, could you give me some examples of movies that you have liked and those you have disliked? I've avoided Van Helsing because of the reviews and might go if I can see if our tastes align.added by edit
Thanks, MonkeyBoy, that suggests that I will like Van Helsing if you did. I agree with you on those pretty much.This message has been edited by NosyNed, 05-18-2004 11:02 AM

Hrm... I'm vastly more tempted to see Van Helsing now.I'm with Crash on the subject of logic. Bashing a fantasy movie because it conflicts with our reality is retarded. As long as a film is self-consistent, suspending part of your reasoning makes for a great experience. Set a film in a world just like ours but with different rules, so to speak, and follow those rules... that's what fantasy is all about. If a vampire flick has different rules from others, that doesn't make it a bad vampire flick. None of them agree with each other to begin with.

I don't think it's really down to logic. If Van Helsing was a plot driven movie, it would matter, but it isn't. It a sequence of action sequences with tiny slivers of plot sticking them loosely together - and, best of all, it never seems like anything else. You don't care that the plot is thin, and vast sections of it are never explained, because you're never given time to care. The action just keeps on coming, in all its frantic, excellently FX'd and coreographed glory.Van Helsing is a shining example of what an action movie should be. Stunning, adrenalin pumping, funny at times but not to the point of being farce or spoof with big effects and an overblown plot topped off with larger-than-life characters.It's so wonderfully focused; it's clear that the writers stripped out everything that didn't absolutely have to be there. That's why I say film students should be made to watch it, because every film should be so focused on its goals.

Liked is easier than disliked, I very rarely despise a movie:Liked: the Lord of the Rings movies. X-Men 1 & 2. Ghost Dog (Way of the Samurai). Good Will Hunting. Most Bond movies. Spiderman. Finding Nemo. Antz. Blue Juice. Desperado. El' Mariatchi (sp?). The Seven Samurai. Bend it like Beckham. True Romance. The Big Lewbowski. American Psycho.Disliked: The Piano. Event Horizon. The Phantom Menace.

Disliked: Armmaggedon, Godzilla, Lost in Space as 3 really bad ones.

Damn, I've been studying and reading this forum too much to realize that the movie is out. Just last night, I was still in the mindset that the movie won't be out in theaters for a while.

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The Laminator

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How about the fact that bullets made out of silver would prove to malleable to make a decent projectile and wouldn't feed correctly into a gun? In fact, it would make more sense to take a jacketed hollow point and fill its hollow with pure silver. Plus more effective.

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I also had some concerns about barrel fouling. I saw a few additional solutions:1) Silver bullets with lead or copper jackets.2) Silver shot in a shotgun round.3) Silver-lead alloy.But is silver really that much softer than lead?

Ah, Godzilla, a film that could, and should, have been so much better. At least the old movies had that 'dire in an enjoyable way' feel about them.

Nosy-Those are bad ones, no doubt. Bad not because of failing to suspend disbelief, or some logical inconsistancy with reality; bad because I theorize the people that made these "films" have never watched a movie before waking from their Drayno induced comas.If you want to descend further into the pit of mediocrity, try the following:
Batman and Robin
Dante's Peak
Eye of the Beholder
I know what You did last SummerThat's it for now, just reading that list is causing bile to rise to the top of my throat!