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Author Topic:   Biblical contradictions.
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 212 of 329 (10828)
06-02-2002 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Jet
06-02-2002 2:52 PM


No one's trying to misrepresent you, Jet.
Though other cultures have decorated trees and bushes, the modern Christmas tree decorating tradition is widely understood to have a Germanic origin. You seem to be having trouble accepting that there are viewpoints other than your own.
If you'd like to suggest an alternative wording for the home page, please be my guest. All help is appreciated.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Jet, posted 06-02-2002 2:52 PM Jet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Jet, posted 06-02-2002 4:47 PM Percy has replied

Jet
Inactive Member


Message 213 of 329 (10829)
06-02-2002 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Percy
06-02-2002 4:10 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Percipient:
If you'd like to suggest an alternative wording for the home page, please be my guest. All help is appreciated.
--Percy
***The wording, that is, that someone describes the universe as being only thousands of years old rather than millions or perhaps billions of years old, is not necessarily where the problem is. It to whom you give credit for actually saying that the universe is only thousands of years old. If the Bible quotes God as saying such a thing, no problem. Leave it as it is. If, on the other hand, it is merely how YECs have chosen to describe the age of the universe, give them, not God, the credit for the description.***Jet
Shalom
------------------
"KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! FEED YOUR BRAIN!".....................Jet
"For the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of his reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a small band of theologians, who have been sitting there for centuries."
Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Percy, posted 06-02-2002 4:10 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Percy, posted 06-02-2002 10:38 PM Jet has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 214 of 329 (10832)
06-02-2002 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Jet
05-27-2002 1:37 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jet:
[b][QUOTE]Originally posted by schrafinator:
[B] OK, let's say that Protestant Christian Creation is taught alongside science in a science classroom. Why not teach Native American Creation in the science classroom? Or Shinto Creation stories? Or Roman, Australian Aboriginal, or Egyptian Creation?
After all, since Protestant Christian Creationism is based in what the Bible says, and what the Bible says holds ultimate sway over any natural evidence which might be discovered, then any other religion's creation story is as supported as any other.
***Your point is well taken and valid, to be sure. All of the above are as rooted in history as is the erroneous concept of evolution.***Jet[/QUOTE]
Nice non-response.
quote:
schraf: Creation 'science' isn't real science. It violates the tenets of scientific inquiry.......Creation 'science' breaks the rules of science.
***I believe this has been discussed at length already. But in case your memory needs refreshing, then visit...................
http://www.planetkc.com/puritan/EvolutionIsNotScience_f.htm
Your "real science" argument reveals the so-called science of the TOE to be full of holes.***Jet
You miss the point. Even if you could show that Biology, or the ToE which is a very important unifying theory of Biology, somehow isn't scientific (which you haven't and I don't think you can), this would not make Creation 'science' any more scientific, and therefore it remains inappropriate to teach in science classrooms.
quote:
schraf: http://www.skepdic.com/science.html
***Actually, I have already bookmarked the skepdic site, as well as a number of others. I am never opposed to examining all sides of an issue, even when I am convinced that one side, (in this case, the argument for evolution), is so full of errors, misinformation, and outright lies that it is, without a doubt, completely inane.***Jet
OK, how about giving some SPECIFIC criticisms of the ToE. HOW, exactly, does it violate the tenets of scientific inquiry.
I have asked you, repeatedly, for specifics in this vein, Jet, and all you do is avoid real debate.
Jet
[/b][/QUOTE]
------------------
"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply
close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands
of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow-
minded."
-Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Jet, posted 05-27-2002 1:37 PM Jet has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 215 of 329 (10834)
06-02-2002 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Jet
05-28-2002 1:12 PM


[QUOTE] Nevertheless, I realize that some individuals have a very thin skin but I am not going to name any names, "Larry! Schraf! Percy! Mark!", (ha, ha, just a joke, so don't hate me just because I'm a bit sardonic at times).
[/B][/QUOTE]
Thin skin? You have got to be kidding!
It's not that you are "a bit sardonis at times". It's just that you do not answer direct questions, and then tend to become abusive and accusatory when pressed. You actually accused me of undermining the e-mail or snail mail of your super-secret "Creationist research" place you claim exists when I requested some literature.
I'll admit that you have been better behaved as of late, but you still tend to ignore and avoid specifics like the Plague.
By the way, how is that super secret research going? Tell us; how it is going to contribute to the increase of scientific knowledge, and therefore our understanding of nature, with it being so secret?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Jet, posted 05-28-2002 1:12 PM Jet has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 216 of 329 (10835)
06-02-2002 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Jet
06-02-2002 2:56 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Jet:
Originally posted by Quetzal:
Filling in the blank (you should probably also read some of the other threads in this forum for more details - see especially my replies to Syamasu and Philip): random mutation and genetic recombination plus the action of natural selection and the stochastic processes of genetic drift + Time = Evolution. Happy?
***Like I said. Chance + Time = Evolution.***Jet
Shalom

Like my sig says...
'willfully ignorant'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Jet, posted 06-02-2002 2:56 PM Jet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Jet, posted 06-03-2002 4:45 PM nator has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 217 of 329 (10841)
06-02-2002 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Jet
06-02-2002 4:47 PM


Like I said, if you'd like to suggest an alternative wording, please be my guest. Advice is cheap, I get it free all the time. Write what you think it should say and I'll give it a look.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Jet, posted 06-02-2002 4:47 PM Jet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Jet, posted 06-03-2002 4:11 PM Percy has replied

Jet
Inactive Member


Message 218 of 329 (10892)
06-03-2002 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Percy
06-02-2002 10:38 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Percipient:
Like I said, if you'd like to suggest an alternative wording, please be my guest. Advice is cheap, I get it free all the time. Write what you think it should say and I'll give it a look.
--Percy

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away .......
***Scientist find star group from beginning of time***
LIVERMORE, California (CNN) -- Scientists at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory say they've found a galaxy dating back to the beginning of time, close to the edges of the known universe.
The galaxy has its origins in a massive black hole 100 million times the mass of our sun. The black hole sucked in stars and space gases, spitting out columns of energy that sent radio signals throughout the universe, said Wil van Breugel, an astrophysicist at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.
That process yielded the swirling concentration of cosmic gases that came together to create the galaxy's stars, planets and moons.
It took 11 billion years for those signals to reach the Earth and at least 30 years for scientists to figure out how to use the signals to get a picture of the most distant galaxy ever discovered. Researchers recently recalculated the age of the universe at about 12 billion years old.
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9906/18/distant.galaxy/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even when accepting an extreme margin of error regarding the scientific calculations that determined the distance of this galaxy from earth, we still won't be anywhere near the 6,000 to 10,000 years in age that YECs say the earth is. Could scientists be so tremendously wrong in their calculations? Or is it more likely that the YECs really haven't got a clue as to the true age of the earth, let alone the universe, and are just playing guessing games.
Shalom
Jet
------------------
"KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! FEED YOUR BRAIN!".....................Jet
"For the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of his reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a small band of theologians, who have been sitting there for centuries."
Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Percy, posted 06-02-2002 10:38 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Percy, posted 06-03-2002 4:46 PM Jet has not replied

Jet
Inactive Member


Message 219 of 329 (10899)
06-03-2002 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by nator
06-02-2002 8:01 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by schrafinator:
[B] Like my sig says...
'willfully ignorant'
***Like your signature says, you have chosen to be willfully ignorant. You can blame the Catholics if you like, but don't blame God and don't blame me either. It is your choice, so live with it and stop the whining.***
Shalom
Jet
------------------
"KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! FEED YOUR BRAIN!".....................Jet
"For the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of his reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a small band of theologians, who have been sitting there for centuries."
Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by nator, posted 06-02-2002 8:01 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by nator, posted 06-04-2002 6:30 AM Jet has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 220 of 329 (10900)
06-03-2002 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Jet
06-03-2002 4:11 PM


The article you're referring to is a few years old. Since that time scientists have again revised estimates of the age of the universe, and 12 billion years would probably be a lower limit.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Jet, posted 06-03-2002 4:11 PM Jet has not replied

Jet
Inactive Member


Message 221 of 329 (10901)
06-03-2002 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Percy
06-02-2002 12:35 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Percipient:
Jet writes:

Actually, the most widely recognized, and grammatically accurate translation is "Young Maiden" and not young woman. And if you do an honest word study, (heavy emphasis on "honest"), you will have to agree that the term "Maiden" always means "Virgin" and can never mean a non-virgin.
Really? First definition in my desk dictionary:
1a) a girl or young unmarried woman
Second definition:
1b) a virgin
Gee, virgin didn't even get top billing!
--Percy

***Here is a simple solution. Get a better dictionary. Better yet, do a root word search of the original Hebrew word. That way you will be better motivated to throw your liberal dictionary out and invest in a much better one.***
Shalom
Jet
------------------
"KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! FEED YOUR BRAIN!".....................Jet
"For the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of his reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a small band of theologians, who have been sitting there for centuries."
Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Percy, posted 06-02-2002 12:35 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Percy, posted 06-04-2002 12:11 AM Jet has not replied
 Message 224 by nator, posted 06-04-2002 6:32 AM Jet has not replied
 Message 225 by nator, posted 06-04-2002 6:38 AM Jet has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 222 of 329 (10929)
06-04-2002 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Jet
06-03-2002 4:55 PM



This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Jet, posted 06-03-2002 4:55 PM Jet has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 223 of 329 (10948)
06-04-2002 6:30 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by Jet
06-03-2002 4:45 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jet:
[b][QUOTE]Originally posted by schrafinator:
[B] Like my sig says...
'willfully ignorant'
***Like your signature says, you have chosen to be willfully ignorant. You can blame the Catholics if you like, but don't blame God and don't blame me either. It is your choice, so live with it and stop the whining.***
Shalom
Jet[/QUOTE]
Your reply doesn't exactly make sense, does it?
I will simply say that your belligerant attitude and debate "non-style" makes my sig true just about every time you engage anyone on any subject in this forum.
Avoiding and ignoring points is your favorite tactic, and when that doesn't work you resort to name-calling.
Can't you see that this earns you zero respect?
Why would I want to be a Fundamentalist Christian like you if they, like you and others I have encountered, tend to be abusive towards other people and intellectualy-dishonest?
[/b][/QUOTE]
------------------
"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply
close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands
of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow-
minded."
-Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Jet, posted 06-03-2002 4:45 PM Jet has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 224 of 329 (10949)
06-04-2002 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Jet
06-03-2002 4:55 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Jet:

***Here is a simple solution. Get a better dictionary. Better yet, do a root word search of the original Hebrew word. That way you will be better motivated to throw your liberal dictionary out and invest in a much better one.***
Shalom
Jet

"liberal dictionary"
LOL!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Jet, posted 06-03-2002 4:55 PM Jet has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 225 of 329 (10950)
06-04-2002 6:38 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Jet
06-03-2002 4:55 PM


quote:
"For the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of his reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a small band of theologians, who have been sitting there for centuries."
Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow
Um, I don't get it.
Physicists aren't trying to figure out God from holy books, and Theologians aren't trying to figure out the physical laws which govern the Universe by empirical methods.
The groups operate in different spheres using completely different methods so they really don't seek the same kinds of knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Jet, posted 06-03-2002 4:55 PM Jet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Jet, posted 06-04-2002 3:35 PM nator has replied

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5871 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 226 of 329 (10958)
06-04-2002 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Jet
06-02-2002 2:56 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Jet:
Originally posted by Quetzal:
Filling in the blank (you should probably also read some of the other threads in this forum for more details - see especially my replies to Syamasu and Philip): random mutation and genetic recombination plus the action of natural selection and the stochastic processes of genetic drift + Time = Evolution. Happy?
***Like I said. Chance + Time = Evolution.***Jet

Brilliant refutation. Positively unanswerable. I hereby renounce my membership in the Vast Worldwide Evilutionist Conspiracy and vow to burn my copy of Futuyma.
Alternatively, you could come up with something a little more substantive. Try showing that "chance" = "random mutation and genetic recombination plus the action of natural selection and the stochastic processes of genetic drift". Feel free to cite the appropriate scientific literature.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Jet, posted 06-02-2002 2:56 PM Jet has not replied

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