Religion in Government

Hmm... I agree that many of what might be termed 'common sense' laws/morals (murder, steal, rape) might have originated elsewhere and wound up in US law via the bible; but there are notable exceptions.For example:Anti-sodomy laws, prohibition, Sabbath/sin laws (mentioned above in previous post), religious requirements for holders of public office (example above), public indecency laws, monogamy, abortion - I submit that all of these laws are a result of the interpretation of biblical morality.Have we repealed, or are we in the process of repealing, some of these laws? Certainly, but they were laws because our country was founded by a bunch of bible thumping puritans.This message has been edited by custard, 05-29-2004 04:54 AM

riVeRraT writes:

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This nation was founded in the name of God.

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No, it wasn't. It was founded in the name of the people. Perhaps you should read the Constitution:"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity do ordain and establish this constitution for the United States of America."Where in there do you find anything about god?In all the Constitution, the founding document that defines our system of government and our country, religion is mentioned exactly twice. In both cases, it explicitly points out that religion is not to have anything to do with government.

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It was and is its freedom that allows you to "not believe in God"

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Incorrect. It is because the founding fathers knew the perils of having religion and government intertwined that they specifically and deliberately wrote the Constitution to separate the two.

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Funny, without God you might have never had that chance to "not belive in God"

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Did you not "not believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn" until you were just told about here?You seem to think that atheists go around constantly ranting, "There is no god! There is no god!" The thing about atheism is that you really don't think about it. What is the point of wasting time cogitating over something that doesn't exist?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Ha ha. Very well put. The thing that a lot of religious people don't seem to understand is that it isn't that I hate god or dislike the fact that other people believe in god, it's that I find the concept of god essentially irrelevant to my life.I had an interesting conversation with a teacher once during which I asked him if he were an athiest. He responded that he didn't even know what I meant by that question. At first I was confused until I realized that, in a sense, 'athiest' is a label ascribed to individuals who just think of themselves as people, not 'athiests.'I think about God about as often and as seriously as I do about Wotan, Apollo, or Xenu.This message has been edited by custard, 05-29-2004 06:44 AM

Since few of these laws are unique to Christian cultures, how can they be?That's kind of what I'm getting at. It's hard to argue that a certain law comes from the Bible when folks who have never read the Bible have passed the same law, you know?

Not when none of the founding fathers were Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or Pagan (well who knows about Ben Franklin). I think it is a fairly simple inference that their concepts of morality sprang directly from the bible.Do you really want to argue that someone cracked open Cicero at some point and said "hey, the ancient Romans had a law against sodomy, we should too!"Even if you do want to argue that many of the morals spelled out in the bible originated somewhere else, good luck tranlating those clay tablets - hope your cuneiform hasn't gotten rusty, I think you would find it difficult to argue that the bible was not the single greatest influence for our country's morals. Whether these laws existed in some form before they found their way into the bible is irrelevant. They are still coming from the bible.This message has been edited by custard, 05-29-2004 07:40 AM

Well, yeah.I guess my point is that I interpreted the statement "these morals came directly from the Bible" to mean that "the Bible is the primary source for these moral precepts."The Bible may have been the immediate source for these precepts, but it can hardly be the primary source. I'll agree that the Bible was the most immediate source, yes. But as far as "single greatest source" goes, that to me would be the source from which the Bible and other religious books drew their precepts originally.Maybe we're talking about two different things?

Probably. Or I wasn't as clear as I could have been.Let me try stating it this way. My premise is that our country's lawmakers used, and continue to use, the bible as a source of inspiration for many of our laws - particularly morality laws.

Ok, I'll grant that premise. To it, I'll add that I don't believe that puts the Bible in any sort of exalted position of moral authority, because the Bible is not the primary source of those moral precepts, but merely one of many collections of them. Not that I believe you were trying to do that.

More specifically, mans belief in him, led them to go and find America and make it free. The people who discovered America, did not proclaim it in the name of freedom, they planted a cross on the beach when they landed, and proclaimed it in the name of God. The site still exists to this day.
All the laws of the constitution were written in the spirit of God. Religion was to be sperated from state so that one person could not control both, because he would then have all the power. Gods word is not always followed correctly, and if it was, could probably end wars, or even better yet not even get started.
Slavery was part of the Bible, so they didn't believe it was wrong.
I believe God intended for there to be slaves, but not the way we know it. It was only supposed to be more like a job, not slavery. They should have always been allowed to be free.

Are you sure of that? If so, can you provide some idea of when and where this happened? I don't think that is exactly correct. Religion was to be seperated from the state because the founders knew perfectly well that it was impossible to choose the correct, true religion. They also knew from experience that whatever religion was chosen, even if only a sect of the Christian Faith, it would terrorize the others.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well actually America was first founded by a man who goes by the name of Amerigo Vespucci. He was a Genoan Merchant and discovered the Americas around well due to controversial reasons its perhaps a little bit before Columbus or a little bit after.
America again was founded by a man named Christopher Columbus in 1492. However, he was not intentionally looking for America he was looking for a new route to the Asian Indies. He also claimed the land under the flag of Castile for Spain.
However, the first 'founders were the Native Americans who settled in America around 11,000 years ago. refer to Guns, Germs, and Steel the Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond. Im sure there are more sources, I just find this one to be valid due to its extensive research and citings. Also as stated in a previous reply

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Part of being in a democracy is that you have to suffer the will of the majority. If the will of the majority creates laws based on religious beliefs - abortion restriction, controlled substances, tax exemptions for religious institutions, then I don't see how one can avoid the influence of religion.

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Fortunately, our Constitutuional rights are NOT determined by majority vote in the US.

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Do you believe it is right to take the words 'under God' out of our national anthem?

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The words "under God" were inserted into the pledge to the flag in the 1950's.They don't appear in the national anthem.

ahh, thank you schrafinator. I did not notice my mistake. I will fix that.

JCPalmer writes If they decide to do so I firmly believe that those of us who had to relearn it when they stuck it in should get a by this time.But if they try to take PLAY BALL out of the Anthem I will be seriously pissed.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion