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Author Topic:   A modern object described in ancient texts negates Creation Myth
stardog24
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 117 (112975)
06-05-2004 9:45 PM


I find it utterly depressing to watch all the myriad ways religious persons will twist the world to fit their views.
  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 17 of 117 (112983)
06-05-2004 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Edward Teller
06-03-2004 11:34 AM


quote:
In the Greek section of Strong's Concordance : Greek word # 975 "book" means a roll.
English word 'roll' comes from Latin 'rota' meaning wheel.

Ever go into a Vietnamese resteraunt and order a spring roll? They are scroll shaped, not wheel-shaped.

Taking a Greek word, making a simplistic translation into English, and the looking into the entymology of the English translation does not sound like sound reasoning to me. In fact this sounds like [text has been deleted as being, in the opinion of the management, highly offensive to certain segments of the readership].


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Edward Teller, posted 06-03-2004 11:34 AM Edward Teller has not yet responded

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4200 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 18 of 117 (113025)
06-06-2004 4:10 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by arachnophilia
06-05-2004 5:04 AM


arachnophilia writes:

time travel..

Yeah, but there's lotsa questions about that, too. I went to the website and they say all this stuff happened, then say its evidence for time travel. Maybe in the members area there's some more convincing stuff, but what I read in the pages I was allowed in had 'full of shit' written all over it; there's just no way around the steaming pile of stupid that the site promotes.


Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by arachnophilia, posted 06-05-2004 5:04 AM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by arachnophilia, posted 06-06-2004 4:39 AM One_Charred_Wing has responded

    
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4200 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 19 of 117 (113026)
06-06-2004 4:25 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Edward Teller
06-05-2004 9:56 AM


Re: Don't take my word for it
Hi Edward.

You know, I'll be first to admit I've been kind of cocky on this forum the last couple of days, but starting now I'm going to get back to being polite.

I am simply letting people know about Mr Pegg's discoveries - and some of the new ones being made using his methods.
The pphc-sg web site provides most of his original written and visual documentation that can be downloaded for FREE.
I have answered your question.It is not up to me to tell you what to think nor to defend Mr Pegg's claims.

Cha-whaat? With all due respect, you didn't even begin to answer Crashfrog's queries. Also, since you have brought this as your opinion on a debate forum, it would seem you should take some responsibility to defend this claim.

I have examined the presented evidence in full, and have come to a conclusion.

Then please enlighten us and answer our questions, as you have looked into it enough to understand it.

You apparently have not examined the evidence, yet you have come to a preconceived conclusion.

I for one found not a single explination of how that time traveller got back there in the first place, and a lot of twisty assertions of what he did back there. Also, how could the time traveller and John understand eachother? I'm sure our understanding of the language used back then is a little off, so even if he took courses or something they couldn't comminucate completely.

Mr Pegg's discoveries have just been released to the public - and may have world-wide consequences as you can imagine if and when they are deemed to be true.

You seem like a brilliant man, but a prophet you are not nor am I. But I'm pretty sure the majority of the public would notice the same flaws we have noticed and asked you about. Since you brought this to our attention and seem to have looked into it, please answer our questions about these claims and maybe we'll take them seriously.

God bless you.


Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.
This message is a reply to:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 22 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 20 of 117 (113028)
06-06-2004 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by One_Charred_Wing
06-06-2004 4:10 AM


hahaha.

and know you know what an evolutionary biologist must think when he reads something written by kent hovind.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 06-06-2004 4:10 AM One_Charred_Wing has responded

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Brian
Member (Idle past 3003 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 21 of 117 (113030)
06-06-2004 6:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Edward Teller
06-03-2004 11:34 AM


Hi,

The transliteration of the three Hebrew letters that form the word David are"DVD"

Wasn't the usual spelling of 'David' actually 'DWD', as in the 'BYTDWD'(House of David) reference in the Tel Dan Stele, or the 'BYTDWD' (House of David?) in the Mesha Stele.

Do you have references for the Ancient Hebrew spelling of David being DVD?

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Edward Teller, posted 06-03-2004 11:34 AM Edward Teller has responded

Replies to this message:
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Edward Teller 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 22 of 117 (113032)
06-06-2004 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Brian
06-06-2004 6:17 AM


Reply to Brian - DWD or DVD
Hi Brian.

Your questions: "Wasn't the usual spelling of 'David' actually DWD - Do you have references for the Ancient Hebrew spelling of David being DVD?"

In the Greek section of Strong's Concordance : Greek word # 1138 "David" is referenced as coming from the Hebrew. Word reference of H-1732 is given.

In the Hebrew section of Strong's Concordance : Hebrew word # 1732 is "David" .
The transliteration is given as "David" and pronounced syllable by syllable in English as daw-veed.

There are three associated Hebrew letter characters that make up this ancient word. There are two letter "D"s, with the middle character being that for the sixth letter of the Hebrew alphabet.
But this 6th character has both a "W" or "V" English equivalent.

So on one hand, there may be a DWD case made for this form of the ancient word, but the given transliteration is DVD and the word is pronounced in English as DAVID (daw-veed).

I quote Strong's Concordance because it has been the standard Bible concordance for pastors, scholars, and laypersons for over a century. If they have got it wrong, then all Bibles and their associated interpretations since 1611 AD will need to be amended.

I am not familiar with your two references, but as the sixth letter of the Hebrew character system can be either W or V, then the BYTDWD you cite could also be written (in English) as BYTDVD.
The person(s) who wrote the report(s) about the two Steles may have had a preference to using an English W instead of a V.

I hope I have fully answered your two questions.
YF,
Edward
PS More in depth answers to previous questions to follow later in the week.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4200 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 23 of 117 (113071)
06-06-2004 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by arachnophilia
06-06-2004 4:39 AM


Kent Hovind:Brilliant or Brilliantly stupid?
I don't know anything about this Kent Hovind except that he gets bashed by both sides on this forum. I really don't feel like scrounging through another stupid website trying to find a gem of logic or validity after the one put in question by this thread, so maybe you could give a quick summary of who he is and why he's a moron?


Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by arachnophilia, posted 06-06-2004 4:39 AM arachnophilia has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 06-06-2004 7:01 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 24 of 117 (113078)
06-06-2004 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by One_Charred_Wing
06-06-2004 6:21 PM


Re: Kent Hovind:Brilliant or Brilliantly stupid?
For a brief summary of Kent Hovind. check out This site

Basically, DrDino as he often refers to himself, is one of the biggest frauds out there and is so far off the scale that even AIG says to beware. He is right in there with Ron Wyatt and unfortuantely, it appears, Mr. Pegg.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 06-06-2004 6:21 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded

Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 22 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 25 of 117 (113098)
06-06-2004 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
06-06-2004 7:01 PM


Re: Kent Hovind:Brilliant or Brilliantly stupid?
no no, mr pegg is in a class of his own.

i'd group him with the chariots of the gods guy, but not so far down as the timecube guy.


This message is a reply to:
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4200 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 26 of 117 (113111)
06-06-2004 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
06-06-2004 7:01 PM


Pathetic
Wow, by that picture in the introduction I actually feel sorry for the guy. He looks so feeble and stressed. That may sound like I'm making fun of him, but I'm being serious. Something about him, at least in that picture, just seems pathetic and broken inside...

To be honest, by the sound of a guy that hosts debates on the radio with people calling in to take his side, I was imagining a tall, muscular guy with a slick haircut and an 'I'm Mr. Badass' attitude. But... this guy looks like he's still recovering from cancer of the soul, if you get my drift. For the slow, my drift is that he doesn't seem secure inside. I can't bash this guy, I've got too much sympathy for him.


Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.
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 Message 24 by jar, posted 06-06-2004 7:01 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 22 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 27 of 117 (113145)
06-07-2004 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by One_Charred_Wing
06-06-2004 10:52 PM


Re: Pathetic
no, i think it's really ironic that he looks that way, personally.

he constantly has to defend his backwards world view in light of evidence to the contrary. he's rejected by even CREATIONISTS as silly. people make fun of him.

and this is something is faith appears to hinge on.

i would pity him, if he weren't willfully lying and misleading impressionable christian teens.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 06-06-2004 10:52 PM One_Charred_Wing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 06-07-2004 8:19 PM arachnophilia has responded

  
Eddy Pengelly
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 117 (113299)
06-07-2004 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Edward Teller
06-06-2004 6:50 AM


No more posts please, Edward
You start off by giving us an example which is totally impossible for anyone to believe.

Yes, I agree that Edward jumped in without testing the water. He introduced concepts that have taken me five years to examine and affirm. He has also quoted my work without asking permission.

I will provide replies to your questions in a separate thread on his behalf.

I will also present Mr Pegg's reasons for not accepting the current translation of the Bible as true and correct.

In addition, later, I will also provide an introduction to Mr Pegg's discoveries that may be of benefit - by starting from the beginning - where Edward should have started.

Eddy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Edward Teller, posted 06-06-2004 6:50 AM Edward Teller has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 117 (113365)
06-07-2004 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Edward Teller
06-03-2004 11:34 AM


In Message #1, Edward contends (among a whole lot of other contentious contentions) that Revelation 5:5 uses a Greek word for "book" meaning "a roll," and that the English word "roll" comes from the Latin "rota" meaning "wheel." This is but one of the farfetched contentions that has led the discussion to 28 posts.

Actually, Revelation 5:5 reads as follows in Greek, "Kai eiv ek twn presbuterwn legei moi, Mh klaie; idou enikhsen o lewn o ek thv fulhv Iouda, h riza Dauid, anoicai to biblion kai tav epta sfragidav autou."

As one can see, the word "biblion" refers to BOOK, scroll, or other written document ... not a WHEEL.

Also note the word "sfragidav" or "sphragis" which is specifically a "seal" (not an icon) used to make a wax impression on a closed scroll, book, letter, or other document. The word also signifies the signet ring making the impression, as well as the proof of authenticity conveyed by the seal or token.

And really, since the Greek is there for all to see, there is no reason to belabor the issue by pointing out that "Leon" means "lion" or "bold warrior," "Dauiod" is "Dabid" the second king of Judah, and "Iuoda" is "Yudah" the fourth son of "Yakov" the patriarch of the 12 Tribes.

Nice try Eddie ... it's been very entertaining. You and Zsafira should team up next time. Maybe meet at the donut shop first for some bear claws and a couple of pots of high-octane coffee.

This message has been edited by Abshalom, 06-07-2004 04:30 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Edward Teller, posted 06-03-2004 11:34 AM Edward Teller has not yet responded

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 4200 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 30 of 117 (113395)
06-07-2004 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by arachnophilia
06-07-2004 2:27 AM


Re: Pathetic
arach writes:

and this is something (twisting the truth, perhaps.)is faith appears to hinge on.

Don't cross that line, please. His faith may stand on that, but mine doesn't and the majority of the churchgoing kids I know don't go for that either. For starters, most of them accept evolution as a fact.

i would pity him, if he weren't willfully lying and misleading impressionable christian teens

Hey now, he hasn't mislead me! With all due respect, you're making it sound like Christians are a bunch of stupid kids that don't know any better.

(Edited because I forgot to put the first quote box)

This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 06-07-2004 07:20 PM


Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by arachnophilia, posted 06-07-2004 2:27 AM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
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