The Mosaic Law food laws show evidence of divine knowledge? Law advanced other ways?

I guess I am a little late but I do know a bit about skin diseases and have discussed this subject here somewhere before IIRC and on other boards as well. It is not completely clear that the diseases that are referred to as "leprosies" in the Bible really are Hansen's disease, which we know as leprosy. Hansen's disease is caused by the bacterium M. Leprae which lives deep in the skin attacking the nerves. Here is what was said about it.

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Some time after I wrote these web pages, a Bible skeptic unwittingly showed me yet another example of advanced scientific/medical knowledge in the Bible. He posted a message on a discussion board that ridiculed some verses in Leviticus 13 and 14 that mention leprosy on walls and on garments. He felt this was silly and an error since leprosy is a human disease. What this skeptic was unaware of is the fact that leprosy is a bacteria, a living organism, that certainly can survive on walls and garments! In fact, the Medic-Planet.com encyclopedia notes that leprosy "can survive three weeks or longer outside the human body, such as in dust or on clothing"2. It is no wonder that God commanded the Levitical priests to burn the garments of leprosy victims! (Leviticus 13:52)

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There is zero evidence that leprosy spreads from clothing. M. Leprea still can't be grown successfully in culture let alone on walls. It certainly wouldn't make hollow streaks of green and red on walls. The sceptic was correct to scoff at the nonsense on Leprosy in Leviticus.The mode of transmission of leprosy is not clear but long contact and close contact with a carrier is required and it is generally considered to spread through aerosolized droplets from the nose and mouth and it can survive outside the body in nasal secretions at least in tropical climates.Now let's look at the treatment protocol to see its highly advance medical knowledge.14:4 Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:14:5 And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water:14:6 As for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water:14:7 And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.14:8 And he that is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, and shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean: and after that he shall come into the camp, and shall tarry abroad out of his tent seven days.14:9 But it shall be on the seventh day, that he shall shave all his hair off his head and his beard and his eyebrows, even all his hair he shall shave off: and he shall wash his clothes, also he shall wash his flesh in water, and he shall be clean.14:10 And on the eighth day he shall take two he lambs without blemish, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish, and three tenth deals of fine flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and one log of oil.14:11 And the priest that maketh him clean shall present the man that is to be made clean, and those things, before the LORD, at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:14:12 And the priest shall take one he lamb, and offer him for a trespass offering, and the log of oil, and wave them for a wave offering before the LORD:14:13 And he shall slay the lamb in the place where he shall kill the sin offering and the burnt offering, in the holy place: for as the sin offering is the priest's, so is the trespass offering: it is most holy:(and so on. )Bird's blood and hyssop will of course be totally useless for treatment of leprosy and I don't think that sacrificing a lamb will help much either.The only effective treatment for leprosy is multiple antibotic treatment with rifampicin, clofazamine and dapsone. The quarante times specified are also totally useless. It is absurd to think that the prescriptions for treating leprosy in Leviticus show any advanced medical knowledge.There are many other problems with their so called health laws as well. Why is a woman unclean for 1 week after giving birth to a man child but for 2 weeks after giving birth to a maid child. Certainly not to protect the child. Ask any neonatologist whether boy or girl babies are more likely to have problems.As to the food laws I always wanted to ask, What is the health reason for never cooking meat in a pan that has had contact with milk or vise versa no matter how well cleaned? Do you really think that there is a good health reason for eating locusts and bald locusts or where they just ahead of the curve for fear factor?Randy
Added in edit: Most likely they were confounding a number of different skin diseases, including various fungal and bacterial infections, vitiligo and psoriasis with leprosy but I don't think that Bird's would be much good for any of them.
This message has been edited by Randy, 06-11-2004 09:30 PMThis message has been edited by Randy, 06-11-2004 09:37 PM

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There are many other problems with their so called health laws as well. Why is a woman unclean for 1 week after giving birth to a man child but for 2 weeks after giving birth to a maid child.

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Unclean is used to express that the woman is sexually off-limits, just as during the monthly flow. I believe they are also exempt from religious duties. (Good way of saying give her a break)Now remember that boys are circumcised on the 8th day. If the woman remained unclean for 14 days as for a girl, the mother would not be able to be part of the circumcision ceremony.So although unclean sounds bad, it was a way to let women rest from certain duties after childbirth.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

So she "gets" to rest longer after having a girl? Why?
So I guess they mean something pretty different when they refer to a man with a leprosy or a running sore to be unclean. Why do the consider anything that an "unclean" woman sat on, lied on or even touched to be unclean? All of these things are very ritualistic as are the animal sacrices necessary to overcome uncleanlyness. If youi read all of Leviticus 15 you will see that it is more than just time to rest and take a break. If being unclean is not bad why does the woman have to offer a sacrifice to the priest for the sin of being unclean? It seesm to me they have nothing to do with health and everything to do with ritualistic behavior and it is absurd to use their superstitions to claim they had some advanced medical knowledge.Randy

Wouldn't be the first time man tagged a ritual onto something that is perfectly natural.Fertility can be affected by overall health. Since growing a child and nursing takes a lot out of a woman's body, I would consider giving a woman time to rebuild her body, as something dealing with health.I explained why the time was shorter after having a boy. I feel two weeks is the better deal.Out of curiosity, did the Hebrews have as many words to chose from when conveying their thoughts as we do today?

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

These rituals had nothing to do with health knowledge.Another question I haven't seen answered by those claiming great health benefits for the Mosaic laws is if they were so good for your health why were they done away with for Christians? Were they only healthy for Jews? How did Christ dying on the cross do away with all those supposed health benefits?Randy

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These rituals had nothing to do with health knowledge.

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Ancient races had health knowledge. It may not have been as specific as what we have today and they may not have been able to say why it was healthy, but they did have an idea of what was beneficial in their time.IMPO, the rituals and sacrifices gave the priests control over the knowlege and the people.I don't agree with Kendemyer's claim that the food laws show evidence of divine knowledge.
See Message 11

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

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I regret to say, however, that I am solemnly promising not to make another post at EVCforum for 3 months (June, July, August are my work busy months).

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Funny. Kendemeyer seems to have plenty of time to contribute to TheologyWeb right now. Where he is bringing his usual command of scinetific facts and his steel-blue logic to the topic of Egyptian chronology.

Please read the following string at TheologyWeb. It will explain my diminished internet posting in general: TheologyWeb Campus Also, please ask Asgara to open this string for the EVC members to explore:http://EvC Forum: Information -->EvC Forum: InformationP.S. Have any home remedies for a mild case of carpal tunnel?Sincerely,Ken

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P.S. Have any home remedies for a mild case of carpal tunnel?

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Why don't you look for a cure in the bible?

TO: Chiroptera and ALLThe previous post was for you and others.TO: wjI do not think that mild cases of carpal tunnel was a large problem in Biblical times due to computers. Perhaps, a less toxic and traditional kosher diet might help. See my commentary regarding grass fed beef. I have read that a half a fresh pineapple a day will often eliminate mild cases of carpal tunnel in a one to three weeks (See: http://www.wholehealthmd.com/...dies/disp/1,1459,443,00.html ). And of course, pineapple is definitely kosher! Isn't God good!TO: ALLI forget that my previous commitment was a solemn promise not to post here and I read chiroptera's post quickly. If I would have remembered this I would have waited until September to respond. Forgive me I knew not what I did! I now resume my non-posting until September.Sincerely,Ken

Don't take my comment too seriously. It was meant to be a joke.I hope your carpel tunnel gets better soon. See a doctor - she might be able to refer you to a good physical therapist. If you don't need to use a computer, I suspect they'll tell you to lay off. Otherwise, there are braces that you can get that will keep your wrists rigid while you type.Take care.

kendermeyer I do but it is painful. When I was first working in the mills on the West Coast I started at a lumber yard sorting lumber to size and grade which necessitated a lot of twisting the arm, After a week my elbows were tight and painful and I found it difficult to grip lumber for any length of time. That first weekend I went to a doctor and he recommended rest and elevation and unfortunately staying away from work.
Anyway I was over at a friends place and he was looking for someone to come to work in his mill and the pay was double my wage at the lumber yard. I told him I wanted to but that the doctor had told me to lay off work for awhile.My friend told me that he knew it was painful but that going on despite the pain my body would adapt. Being a persuasive friend and not wanting to lose the opportunity I agreed and my friend was correct.It was[/b] painful but after a week the pain disappeared.In 20 years I have never again been subject to CTS despite working in the mills and contruction{roofing}.You may want to take the rest and time off but I found it preferable for me to be done with it.

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1) I know there is not 100% consensus regarding circumcision. I do believe, however, that circumcision while not medically necessary does have its advantages and that the pros outweigh the cons. And since I am not afraid of both positions material by any means I offer both pro and con sites for the readers to examine and make their own determination:

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It is morally questionable to subject people to unnecessary intrusive procedures of that type without their informed consent.

REGARDING MICE/RATS First of all the Hebrew word in the Torah may be a very inclusive term.I cite the following from a website:

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The mouse...achbar. Probably the large field rat, or what is called by the Germans the hamster, though every species of the mus genus may be here prohibited.

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taken from: Adam Clarke's Bible Commentary - Leviticus 11

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Now the rat/mouse stove issue which have some practical effects.I cite the following from a website:A website declares:

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"A dead rat in a Hebrew house was not overlooked. It was carefully taken out and buried. In an effort to avoid such problems, the Hebrew housewife would normally keep a clean house . . ."

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taken from: http://www.ucg.org/booklets/CU/matterofhealth.htm

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Also, I think readers who do their due dilgence should see if the rat/mouse proved toxic in the John Hopkins cited study done by Dr. Macht.Next, are mice/rats good to have as household guest?I cite the following from a website:

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The Black Death was one of the worst natural disasters in history. In 1347 A.D., a great plague swept over Europe, ravaged cities causing widespread hysteria and death. One third of the population of Europe died. "The impact upon the future of England was greater than upon any other European country." (Cartwright, 1991) The primary culprits in transmitting this disease were oriental rat fleas carried on the back of black rats.

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Frederick F. Cartwright, DISEASE AND HISTORY, Dorset Press, New York, 1991, p. 42.

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taken from: http://www.insecta-inspecta.com/fleas/bdeath/

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NEXT ISSUE: Lizards There was some previous discussion regarding lizards in this sting. I wish to provide additional commentaryLizards - Good food or bad food? I cite the following:A website declares:

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"PREPARING REPTILES:

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Discard internal organs that may carry salmonella.

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LIZARDS: = POOR FOOD!

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They are hard to catch & they don't have enough meat on them to justify the energy spent to capture them."

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taken from: http://www.logicsouth.com/~lcoble/bible/reptil.html

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Given Dr. Machts 100% correlation between kosher food and non-toxicity and non-kosher food and toxicity using the inductive reasoning of science I would argue that Moses should be given the benefit of the doubt if we postulate that unclean foods are less healthful to eat. Macht tested 80 plus animals although some of them, not many, were not strictly Biblical described animals (for example ducks).There are poisonous lizards in the world. Whether or not there are extinct poisonous lizards in the Middle East area is a unknown matter to my knowledge.NEXT ISSUE: UNCLEAN ANIMALS FALLING IN WATER SUPPLY (OR WATER)For a Bible skeptic to complain that an unclean animal falling in a water supply should make it permanently unclean that skeptic would have to show the cost/benefit ratio was favoring permanently removing that water supply. In a arrid place like the Middle East I would think that is hard to justify. If memory serves the Torah verse applied to a water supply.Rats/mice or lizards causing a new stove to be made could be argued insures a clean home and pest free home.NEXT ISSUE: COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES It seems reasonable that in order to support your assertion that the Mosaic Law is nothing out of the ordinary or not extraordinary people will have to cite a comparable work to the Mosaic Law at that approximate period of time (ancient civilizations) that is filled with as much nutritional (toxic foods, fat) , sanitary, agricultural (e.g. fallow periods in Mosaic code, environmental, and general health provisions (e.g. taking off a day to replenish human body) information that was far ahead of its time. I haven't seen this done. At the very least (and I do not think this would be sufficient), they would offer a culture that reflected as much wisdom in the above regards. I am giving you a lot of lattitude in that anyone has the entire earth to find such a work (or even ancient culture although I did not think this would be entirely sufficient) during this approximate time period (ancient civlilizations). I realize that this will require scholarship and effort and thoughtful commentary. I do think, however, that this is the primary purpose of this board and that nothing less should be offered.I definitely do not anyone else to "cherry pick" various ancient works or civilizations for information that was way ahead of its time. In other words, let us compare apples with apples and not apples with the entire fruit category or multiple fruit catagories.As I may have mentioned before people do not drop dead when they eat bear meat or camel meat for example. The Arabs who do not eat kosher eat camel widely for example. Therefore, it is not likely that Moses who was raised an Egyptian (do not want to debate this point because it would be a very long debate) would have noticed any discernable effects of eating non-kosher food. The non-Jewish ANE cultures to my knowledge had no extensive kosher type laws before the Torah that have been rigorously tested and which would seem to indicate healthfulnesss. We see primitive and harmful medical practices often in ANE cultures (Egyptians). To my knowledge, their is no procedure which causes ill health in the Torah.To falsify Macht, should show me a ANE culture or primitive culture where all their provisions in a large written code were of a non-health hazardous nature. You would also need to show me something equivalent to what is in the Torah as cited in the thread. Given that the Journal of the American Medical Association and the Egyptians made some flubs this likely may not be easy.In addition, the Chinese are a very old culture. The Chinese will eat anything. I would readily admit that perhaps the Chinese had population pressure to eat anything. I am guessing a civilization living in the regions of the Middle East which can be arid might have a strong temptation to eat everything too though. And again, the benefits of eating these food and not eating these food would often seem long term. Plus Macht got a perfect score!

addendum to my last post:I wish to make a correction. It appears through my written sources and internet sources that the word "leprosy" is not the best translation in many Bibles.Here is a site which explains this matter although I would recommend the 1986 version of the Wycliffe Bible Commentary which goes into more depth in some matters:http://www.webspawner.com/users/LEPBIBLE/Sincerely,Ken