Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Proof for God?
MexicanHotChocolate
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 11 (115470)
06-15-2004 5:03 PM


One thing I have always wondered about creationists is their need to prove their Bible is 'true' and their god is 'real'. I thought the idea of religion was to take God on faith. If you have faith in God why do you need to prove he exists to non-believers? Or am I missing something?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by JonF, posted 06-16-2004 8:57 PM MexicanHotChocolate has not replied
 Message 4 by almeyda, posted 06-17-2004 2:36 AM MexicanHotChocolate has not replied
 Message 6 by 1.61803, posted 06-17-2004 3:58 PM MexicanHotChocolate has not replied
 Message 10 by PeriferaliiFocust, posted 06-21-2004 5:42 AM MexicanHotChocolate has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 2 of 11 (115872)
06-16-2004 8:49 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 3 of 11 (115874)
06-16-2004 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MexicanHotChocolate
06-15-2004 5:03 PM


Well, there's several factors.
One is that science is very important in the modern world, and some people feel the need to have scientific validatation for their faith.
Of course, some people are trying to take over the schools and force them to indoctrinate childrean in their particular sect's interpretation of religion.
And some are secure in their faith and just trying to convert the infidels and heretics who don't agree with every detail of their sect.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MexicanHotChocolate, posted 06-15-2004 5:03 PM MexicanHotChocolate has not replied

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 11 (115954)
06-17-2004 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MexicanHotChocolate
06-15-2004 5:03 PM


Religion does not have to be blind faith. There is no such rule. If one can prove a religious textbook to fit the facts of reality, then it is no longer blind faith but strong faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MexicanHotChocolate, posted 06-15-2004 5:03 PM MexicanHotChocolate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by JonF, posted 06-17-2004 11:30 AM almeyda has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 5 of 11 (116028)
06-17-2004 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by almeyda
06-17-2004 2:36 AM


If one can prove a religious textbook to fit the facts of reality, then it is no longer blind faith but strong faith.
Perhaps. We'll only know if and when someone proves a religious textbook to fit the facts of reality. Your faith in your religious textbook is not such proof.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by almeyda, posted 06-17-2004 2:36 AM almeyda has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 6 of 11 (116115)
06-17-2004 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MexicanHotChocolate
06-15-2004 5:03 PM


MHC writes:
If you have faith in God why do you need to prove he exists to non-believers? Or am I missing something?
Yes Mexican Hot Chocolate, you are missing something..
The Crusades, The Inquistions, The Missonarys of Spain in the new world. All bent on preventing the pagans and heathens from burning in hell by offering them the grace of God. Never mind that this was a ploy to plunder and exploit it was done in the name of God nonetheless. JMHO.

"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MexicanHotChocolate, posted 06-15-2004 5:03 PM MexicanHotChocolate has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 7 of 11 (116125)
06-17-2004 4:16 PM


Ofcourse, some would say that evolution is not the truth because it doesn't seem to fit with the bible, which some hold as true above all things.
Some people do need an answer as to why there is "evolution". I think creationist DO genuinely want to help those who need to satisfy their intellect aswell as their being. John Mckay was talking about how even when he studied evolution, things didn't add up to him, and he found answers in creationism. Some people don't want to simply go along with "evolution" like it's the absolute truth, a certainty. Some people still believe in a creator that didn't use evolution. You see, some people are creationist for themselves.
Maybe it's not so much about convincing unbelievers, but answering the genuine questions that may come from ones own unbelief or confusion. I readily admitt, that I am still honestly undecidedly unsure of what happened in the past. Yet it's not like I'm forcing you into what I conclude is it? Why do you think that we "must" accept evolution if we can derive another Theory from evidence? Why must I "choose" evolution?

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by custard, posted 06-17-2004 11:05 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 9 by MexicanHotChocolate, posted 06-18-2004 2:13 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
custard
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 11 (116245)
06-17-2004 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by mike the wiz
06-17-2004 4:16 PM


MTW writes:
Why do you think that we "must" accept evolution if we can derive another Theory from evidence?
What scientific theory is that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 06-17-2004 4:16 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
MexicanHotChocolate
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 11 (116275)
06-18-2004 2:13 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by mike the wiz
06-17-2004 4:16 PM


I am not asking anyone to accept evolution as true... I just don't understand why creationists I talk to feel somehow obligated to force their truths down my throat. Why can't they just accept that I don't believe what they believe about God and the Bible and leave it alone. Evolution on the other hand isn't, to borrow from the Indiana Jones movies, the quest for truth it is the Quest for facts...And evolution is an observable fact...It has been observed in fruit flies whose new generations come along every few days. The only real questions about evolution is exactly how it happens and on what scale.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 06-17-2004 4:16 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by PeriferaliiFocust, posted 06-21-2004 5:47 AM MexicanHotChocolate has not replied

  
PeriferaliiFocust
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 11 (117037)
06-21-2004 5:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MexicanHotChocolate
06-15-2004 5:03 PM


This is a hugely important subject. Most people don't understand anything about their religion, they aren't intelligent enough to see principles behind rules. Religion and faith can be good if used with brains. Christians let uneducated emotion blind them in wasteful activities of trying to proove themselves, and trying to fight non-believers. They are full of denial and rationalization, and forget, first by default, then by choice, everything that christ actually taught. They don't know what they are doing, and thus give their religion a bad name-- allowing other stupid people believe that these stupid peoples actions represent a whole group. This happens in every religion, Islam for example. Mohomad would see extremists for the terrible evil they are, but the extremists are stupid and are not thinking about mohomad or Allah. They are liars and do not know it.
Sorry for rambling so long, my main point is, if you have faith, question it. Make sure your faith is for a reason, once you know that reason, and are comfortable with it, and know it well, you will learn to have faith if everything points in the opposite direction (as long as everything doesn't include the reason you originally chose your faith). Cause that's what faith is, and if you deny that in word or action, you are an idiot, and likely deserve to die a painful death. I will not apologize for that harshness, people of blind faith cause a lot of pain for everyone they can influence, God will give them justice.

Natural selection is not the whole of evolution and it's path is often altered by events outside of it's scope - most famously by a bloody great asteroid hitting the earth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MexicanHotChocolate, posted 06-15-2004 5:03 PM MexicanHotChocolate has not replied

  
PeriferaliiFocust
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 11 (117038)
06-21-2004 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by MexicanHotChocolate
06-18-2004 2:13 AM


They shove it down your throat cause they were programmed into a certain mindset since they were young. I guess there is the exception of those who later adopt religion, but i still blame their parents for not raising them into more intelligible individuals (which capacity is primarily learned young, so my point still works).

Natural selection is not the whole of evolution and it's path is often altered by events outside of it's scope - most famously by a bloody great asteroid hitting the earth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by MexicanHotChocolate, posted 06-18-2004 2:13 AM MexicanHotChocolate has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024