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Author
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Topic: A modern object described in ancient texts negates Creation Myth
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6177 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Yes. That's why the existing texts can not (should not) be changed by time travel. What has happened due to past encounters can not be changed without erasing our present.The way Mr Pegg explains it, shows that warnings about the past mistakes are given so that the 'present' people can make the changes. In this way our "history" will remain the same. Okay, I agree. But... since this alledged time travel is likely accesible by more than a small group of people in the future, how do we know that all our memories etc. now are the same as they were 'yesterday', as in before somebody could've quite possibly stirred up a little commotion during the writing of the American Constitution?
He would not cease to exist because he is physically here (- there, at the 'earlier' time when he separated his parents)... And he will not change the 'original history' because that is from where he came. But he DID change the original history by aborting himself BEFORE he even existed. Watch out Planned Parenthood, you've got some competition on the Hippies' Most Wanted list... But seriously, you went on about how you didn't know where the 'original history' went after he did this. In all logic, he would just cease to exist. And since people would take advantage of time travel to kill people if we ever made it possible, I can't help but think overpopulation would not be a problem today if such a thing will be discovered.
No, no.no.no.no - clarify !
The question was specifically Why the particular 386 PC computer taken back in time (for the many reasons given by several people).
I said I personally do not know. Okay, that's fine. Thank you for being honest. But, what makes you think he went to tell them that they 'got it wrong'? Why would he try to tell them that by showing them a strange object that projects strange images... and to an apostle of Jesus of all people?
I want to get to the bottom of his claims just like everyone else.
His evidence needs to be examined piece by piece, and the assumptions sifted out from the solid conclusions. Well, that's certainly sparked my interest in this conversation a few times fold. At first I thought you were trying to 'convert' us to 'Pegg-anism' if you will, and that's why I was a little sarcastic at first. Sorry.
Since May 5 2004 over 2,900 people have visited the PPHC-SG web site. Of these about 20 people have indicated in their opinion "the possibility" of time travel being involved.
That's actually .06 percent, not the .0012 you say. LOL Well shoot, that's five times the amount I predicted. But still, those aren't convincing odds if one was to take the bandwagon approach.
OK, so I should not have used the bandwagon approach, plus the web site has only been opened for a month or so, it is early days - sorry, it was late and I was tired. It's alright. It's usually late and I'm usually tired when I write these, so I understand.
In my analogy, not knowing what a motor vehicle was (or ignoring its existence), would not stop me getting hurt. Okay, I understand now. "What you don't know is about to hurt you"; that's something I've said and believed for 5 years now. Although I admit we'd be at the mercy of anybody who had time at their fingertips, there's really nothing that we can do to avoid this threat assuming it exists.
Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
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Eddy Pengelly
Inactive Member
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pink sasquatch writes: Is there a reason why the hypothesis is time travel to the past, as opposed to prophecy, which would seem to make sense in Biblical perspective and still allow the inclusion of modern objects? Yes. Michael Drosnin in his Bible Code 2 book mentions 'time travel will come in every time' or something similar. (I'm going on memory here.) This in itself is not conclusive, but is just another piece of the puzzle that throws the scales towards time travel. Discovering modern objects described in ancient texts can draw several assumptions: (1) Time Travel back to the past and the ancient people personally viewed the cd-roms on a computer taken back by the time traveller, and told* exact historical information. (2) Time Travel back to the past as a holograph (or whatever) and shown and told* the above - support for this is that several 'prophets' report the 'angel of God' (image of time person) in a bright light above the ground. (3) The ancient person being 'brought forward' to a future time and shown the cd-rom on a PC 386 (- PC 386 may indicate a mid 1990s time ??) and told* of future events. - support for this is their reports of 'being in a dream state' or similar. (4)"Prophesy" as you may define it. (5)Given "Prophesy". Using the early time travel techniques cited in Jenny Randles' book "Time Storms" - a future people send back to particular 'prophets' information about certain 'future' events. eg. Daniel, Ezekiel, Nostradamus. - this is not 'prophesy' but given information of the future. * The E.L.S. Code is encoded in the Torah itself. Events from the 1991 Persian Gulf War and the following Exodus into Turkey, plus the astronomical and historical events of the ten people working on the Bible Code appear in; a) the plain surface text; b) the etymological level of language (using Strong's Concordance as the decoding key; and c) specifically 'hidden and encode' data pertaining to one year of PGW events in the Book of Kings, plus 'hidden' numerical data in Judges and others. Any one of these scenarios in itself could be the answer. But I believe that it was a combination of them, after the first 'mistake' was made, the Torah (containing the 'hidden and encoded data, ie. E.L.S. code) was sent back, but the 'dream' prophets may have obtained their information in one of the mentioned ways, while other stories in the ancient texts that appear to reflect these things may be just the locals re-telling the story told to them - in which that person did not personally have a time encounter. This is starting to get way off topic for this forum.
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Eddy Pengelly
Inactive Member
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Message 93 of 117 (117055)
06-21-2004 8:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 82 by crashfrog
06-20-2004 5:09 AM
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If the first time travel encounter that caused the religons to form was deleted from history, then no religions would form, thus no religious societies, means no civilization as we now know it. query -- Then how did the first iteration of civilization happen, I mean, the one that led to time travel? also -- But you've got the consequences - a time-travel-capable civilization - occuring before the action - the time-trip in question. We are still in that "civilization' because they are CORRECTING the mistakes, and not erasing them. Our society IS the consequence. It has occurred because once Mr Pegg's discoveries are found to be mostly correct, it will be realized that time Travel HAS happened, and that someone, sometime, IS going to master the science and make a time machine - during which the first trip will cause the initial 'mistake'. But we are still here to know about it because of the correcting philosophy and not the 'go back to the day before' concept.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 82 by crashfrog, posted 06-20-2004 5:09 AM | | crashfrog has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 94 by crashfrog, posted 06-21-2004 8:55 AM | | Eddy Pengelly has replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1488 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Our society IS the consequence. Right, I got that the first time. What I don't understand is how that's possible, when the society with time travel is the future of our society - it must be, since they're using American computers and software - but our society is the consequence of time travel. It's circular. How can a time travel society be the consequence of its own existence and actions? How does that circle get started?
It has occurred because once Mr Pegg's discoveries are found to be mostly correct, it will be realized that time Travel HAS happened, and that someone, sometime, IS going to master the science and make a time machine - during which the first trip will cause the initial 'mistake'. Right, but that first trip won't have happened at all before the first trip happens. It's a cycle, a paradox, and I don't see how it can get started if time travel is only a consequence of a time-trip that can't happen without time travel.
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Eddy Pengelly
Inactive Member
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Message 95 of 117 (117058)
06-21-2004 9:02 AM
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Reply to: Message 88 by Melchior
06-20-2004 1:13 PM
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In case anyone has actually used the program in question; would the content be understandable by someone ~2000 years ago without the basic education of our time? This has been discussed before. Simple answer - no, not really. They would recognize some of the imagery, but probably not understand the words and speech. BUT remember, most of the 'prophets' say that they were told to write down what they were told and what they saw. From their perspective, an angel of God (a time traveller) has told them to do something - so they did it to the best of their understanding. When you view the Ancients cd-rom using their level of understanding, this being the source of the Bible and other ancient texts that report the creation story is plainly seen, as is the events from the 1991 Persian Gulf War when the Grolier cd-rom is viewed.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 88 by Melchior, posted 06-20-2004 1:13 PM | | Melchior has not replied |
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Eddy Pengelly
Inactive Member
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But, what makes you think he went to tell them that they 'got it wrong'? Why would he try to tell them that by showing them a strange object that projects strange images... and to an apostle of Jesus of all people? The 'time people' kept making the same mistake of showing the next chronological set of people what caused the previous misunderstanding, being the cd-roms and its strange images of the future - until they changed strategy to encode 'hidden' messages in the ancient texts that would be found in 1958 and 1998 - a non-religious approach The Hebrew priests consulted an Oracle in the Jerusalem Temple. Mr Pegg's discoveries identify this "oracle" as a computer system, with the two "tables" being the cd-roms Ancients and Grolier. Many other 'prophets' had an encounter with a time traveller including Daniel, Ezekiel, and Muhammed and Smith. As far as the evidence goes, Jesus, like Matthew, viewed the 'oracle' in the Jerusalem Temple. This is from where Matthew and others obtained their Gospel descriptions. It is reported that Jesus "turned the tables' in the Temple - meaning he turned the cd-roms on the oracle apparatus. The version of Christianity (Judaism ?) that Jesus was teaching was side-tracked by the Gospels' versions of events written up 40 to 90 years later in the Greek New Testament, and later further changed by the Roman Empire, and then also by the subsequent Holy Roman Church - which created the 'trinity' concept etc. One specific reverent warning by John is in Revelations 13:18 where he warns about this anti-christ religious trinity faith (the Lamb beast) that was written by Mark, whose number of verses was originally 666. It has been found that twelve verses have been added to Marks Gospel (678 - 12 = 666) - but that is another story. The overall warning by the time traveller is a general one that tells of all the prophets who viewed the oracle in their various temples (the cd-roms on a computer) whether with a time encounter or just retelling the stories about a previous encounter, have taken it to be a 'religious experience with an angel of God', rather than an "oops, we stuffed up" from a future time traveller. Mr Pegg translated Genesis 1:1-6 and found the specific warning to which you refer. He converted the Old English religious translations back into the original Hebrew context and meanings, and found:
Genesis 1:1-6 writes: The first of a sequence; gods created; (next) a sky with clouds; (next) a part of earth.
The part of the earth was concealed; A desolate empty darkness after the surface of the main sea.
The breathing-spirit of the gods to sit over the face of the water to challenge and cast down the gods.
Knowledge to exist there.
Following the gods a sun to appear there. That sun to succeed the gods.
From selecting the sun, a secret place.
Religious leaders and messengers to call upon the hot sun in ignorance. They to preach to distort the knowledge to meddle with and cover up the original words following the dawning of the first Sun.
The gods commune and sink there: the two sections of the visible sky and water: to exist and remain to divide the water from the water. Here is the warning and reason decoded from Genesis 1:5 Religious leaders and messengers to call upon the hot sun in ignorance. They to preach to distort the knowledge to meddle with and cover up the original words following the dawning of the first Sun. The Ancients cd-rom has on its cover what looks like the face of the Sun God - and this is why the Sun god was worshipped in the ancient Middle East and then Egypt. The Sun = the 'start' icon that take you to the information (the secret place). The recognizable "Creation" sequence = the start up sequence from the cd-rom to its Map Page (the secret place). Enough said on this here.I have submitted a topic pertaining to Genesis 1:1-6 in new proposals.
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Eddy Pengelly
Inactive Member
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Message 97 of 117 (117076)
06-21-2004 10:32 AM
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Reply to: Message 94 by crashfrog
06-21-2004 8:55 AM
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Remember the 1990s level of computer technology - maybe time travel has already happened - and the cycle begun, but we have not been told or know about it. The discovery of the E.L.S Bible Code between 1958 and when it was publicized in 1997 (as Mr Pegg says) was to alert the world to this situation. But the fact that the Bible is something else other than just a religious book did not have the desired effect at that time. More seriously, what happens if someone else builds a time machine and wants to break the cycle. Maybe that is why the Mayan calander ends in 2012 !
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by crashfrog, posted 06-21-2004 8:55 AM | | crashfrog has replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1488 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Remember the 1990s level of computer technology - maybe time travel has already happened - and the cycle begun, but we have not been told or know about it. It still wouldn't matter, Eddy. The time travel technology would be the direct result of a civilization that wouldn't exist without time travel. It's still a paradox. The computer technology you're talking about doesn't prove time travel has occured. It proves that time travel can't ever occur.
The discovery of the E.L.S Bible Code Those Bible Codes have been mathematically refuted, and no substantial defense has been offered. There's no reason to believe that the Bible codes aren't simply a case of seeing what you want ot see in a string of text sufficiently long enough.
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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The discovery of the E.L.S Bible Code between 1958 and when it was publicized in 1997 (as Mr Pegg says) was to alert the world to this situation. i'll agree with crash above, only with some good proof. having seen the operations myself, i can tell you that they're inconsistent methods, often using words from the actual text (i call that cheating). it also works equally well in other books. i have personally heard dr brendan mckay, professor of computer science at the australian national university, speak on the subject, and his arguments were so thorough and convincing, that they made the subject look like such idiocy the audience actually laughed aloud throughout the lecture. read his page, thoroughly: Torah Codes
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6177 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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Hiding from relatives on vacation Part 2
The 'time people' kept making the same mistake of showing the next chronological set of people what caused the previous misunderstanding, being the cd-roms and its strange images of the future - until they changed strategy to encode 'hidden' messages in the ancient texts that would be found in 1958 and 1998 - a non-religious approach I'm sorry, that's real far-fetched. Why would they make it such a stretch in the text? I realize the ancients wrote it, but still! Show them something that would cause the description to be so blatantly obvious that ANYBODY of 2004 would see it. How hard could that be? This is also assuming that all these events even occured. By the way, I just finished reading A Brief History Of Time, and with that information in mind as well, time travel(especially into the past) has become pretty much science fiction to me, unless this time traveller was a single Antiparticle that expanded upon arrival to the past.
[qs]The Hebrew priests consulted an Oracle in the Jerusalem Temple. Mr Pegg's discoveries identify this "oracle" as a computer system, with the two "tables" being the cd-roms Ancients and Grolier. Two CDs and a computer will slightly resemble vague descriptions in old text. Somehow that's not convincing to me. That's not even a discovery; it's a hypothesis. He's discovered nothing, unless he's found a 2000 year old computer in the Middle East. And again, I really doubt they'd call a computer an 'oracle'.
Many other 'prophets' had an encounter with a time traveller including Daniel, Ezekiel, and Muhammed and Smith. Ed, I'm doing my best to be objective and open-minded to this as you are. But this is just too much right here. Joseph Smith lived in a time of great technological advance; they knew about atoms etc. and had all these theories about the universe. I think if a time traveller went back and explained computers etc. to the right people of the era, it would be very easy for them to understand everything. The language would be understood by a modern man, and if the time traveller knew the mathematics for some of our modern theories, he could show them and get some heads turned. And that's just one way; there would be a thousand things you could do to tell a man of Smith's time that they'd 'got it wrong'.
As far as the evidence goes, Jesus, like Matthew, viewed the 'oracle' in the Jerusalem Temple. This is from where Matthew and others obtained their Gospel descriptions.
It is reported that Jesus "turned the tables' in the Temple - meaning he turned the cd-roms on the oracle apparatus. Please state the source of the turned tables incident if you can; I think something about that was in the Bible. But no, I think they'd say he turned the '___'s and not tables, because they had a word for table I'm sure. I'm also sure they would have a word for the discs, and the reporter would specify that he turned those and not actual tables. T he version of Christianity (Judaism ?) that Jesus was teaching was side-tracked by the Gospels' versions of events written up 40 to 90 years later in the Greek New Testament, and later further changed by the Roman Empire, and then also by the subsequent Holy Roman Church - which created the 'trinity' concept etc. I don't see what this has to do with the topic we're discussing.
Mr Pegg translated Genesis 1:1-6 and found the specific warning to which you refer.
He converted the Old English religious translations back into the original Hebrew context and meanings, and found: If you know Peggy's qualifications for archeology, Hebrew and whatever science he claimed to use to uncover this concept, please tell me. He sounds like he can do a lot of things... Then there was a mentioning of Genesis, but since you've posted something about that in another thread you can expect to see me there sometime.
Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Re: Hiding from relatives on vacation Part 2
Two CDs and a computer will slightly resemble vague descriptions in old text. Somehow that's not convincing to me. That's not even a discovery; it's a hypothesis. He's discovered nothing, unless he's found a 2000 year old computer in the Middle East. And again, I really doubt they'd call a computer an 'oracle'. well, you'd better talk to the people at Oracle | Cloud Applications and Cloud Platform then!
Joseph Smith lived in a time of great technological advance; they knew about atoms etc. and had all these theories about the universe. I think if a time traveller went back and explained computers etc. to the right people of the era, it would be very easy for them to understand everything. smith and co got harassed alot for their ideas. what's one more to get them in trouble? really? especially since charles babbage was a contemporary of joseph smith's, the time travel could likely have even USED THE WORD "COMPUTER"
Please state the source of the turned tables incident if you can; I think something about that was in the Bible. But no, I think they'd say he turned the '___'s and not tables, because they had a word for table I'm sure. I'm also sure they would have a word for the discs, and the reporter would specify that he turned those and not actual tables. that confirms it! jesus was a dj! dj jesus, rockin' the temple, oh yeah. the passage in question, from memory, is jesus destorying the table of money-changers, with him yelling about them making the house of his father like a den of theives. context, people, context!
If you know Peggy's qualifications for archeology, Hebrew and whatever science he claimed to use to uncover this concept, please tell me. He sounds like he can do a lot of things... Then there was a mentioning of Genesis, but since you've posted something about that in another thread you can expect to see me there sometime. he's a crackpot, no matter what his qualifications. you and i may disagree on interpretations of genesis, but i think both of us, and any other sane person, can disagree with mr. pegg's. if only for the reason that we have the text, in hebrew, today, read by people who speak hebrew, and they're sure not saying anything like that at all.
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Message 102 of 117 (120255)
06-30-2004 2:38 AM
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i want to raise another question. a lot of hebrew words in the ot come from other languages. they borrowed alot. for instance, the "reed" in "sea of reeds" (or "the red sea" as very often mistranslated) is from an egyptian word. why are no words from english, if a time traveller showed all of these people things from an english cd-rom? how come there are no hebrew-izations of words like "cd-rom" "computer" "disk" etc? it would stand to reason they'd be at least a little similar to modern versions... does this or anything similar appear anywhere in the bible?
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One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6177 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: 11-21-2003
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PATIENCE
Okay, I stand corrected on the oracle thing  . But in all seriousness, it seems like I'm the only one here trying to be open-minded about this Pegg-an theory... I know it sounds wild; honestly I'm having a very hard time not trouncing on it myself. But shouldn't we be patient with it a little longer before we completely dismiss what somebody honestly believes? "Do unto others as you would unto me". I'm about to completely dismiss it myself, but I do regret making fun of the site if some people honestly believe in it. I'm not around to preach mockery, but tolerance. I'd appriciate it if you guys made my job a little easier.
Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Re: PATIENCE
I know it sounds wild; honestly I'm having a very hard time not trouncing on it myself. But shouldn't we be patient with it a little longer before we completely dismiss what somebody honestly believes eh, no. i gave him a chance. i'm even willing to believe that it's possible, and may have happened. i'm just scrutinizing the so-called evidence, because none of it makes any sense.
I'm about to completely dismiss it myself, but I do regret making fun of the site if some people honestly believe in it. I'm not around to preach mockery, but tolerance. I'd appriciate it if you guys made my job a little easier. i don't mean to make fun. well, ok, except for the dj jesus part. because that was funny. but seriously. the guy is a crackpot. just because someone believes something doesn't make it valid or true. things have to stand up to evidence.
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John Williams
Member (Idle past 5020 days) Posts: 157 From: Oregon, US Joined: 06-29-2004
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Message 105 of 117 (120569)
07-01-2004 2:32 AM
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Re:
Unfortunately, we don't seem to have a shortage of crackpot scientists in our day and age. Does anyone here remember Ron Wyatt? the seventh day adventist who claimed to have found Noah's Ark, and the Ark of the Covenant, aswell, as the Chariot wheels of Pharoahs army in the Red Sea etc. Kent Hovind, Carl Baugh,.... etc. All these guys are about as....well, you know.
Corpus Maritanius 1964 -
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