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Author | Topic: What drove bird evolution? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Steen Inactive Member |
quote:I hope you have more than "belief" in Evolution, that you have some actual understanding of it. Accepting something on "belief" only doesn't leave much room for actual understanding. quote:That's funny. I am a Christian, and I see Evolution as a natural process, not a "miracle." quote:Good idea. quote:Nope. It can happen rather fast, actually. quote:Sounds like the ones who told you this are the ones who don't understand Evolution. It really isn't that hard, at least not the basics that most outside of the field of research ever is exposed to. quote:Nope, it doesn't. The process really is rather simple. A change in genetic composition is either spread or not throughout a population, depending on how adaptable that mutation is. That's rather simple, don't you think? quote:What gives you that idea? Do you have any factual information that supports this claim? quote:Or the many, if they fit. quote:Eh? Could you elaborate so it becomes clear what you actually mean here? quote:Actually, wings can provide all sorts of non-flight assistance. It can help you move, it can help you cool off or be sheltered from the cold. It can help you flutter out of reach. There is nothing that indicates that the first bird was able to soar for years. quote:I would love to see that reference, as it sounds rather unlikely. Surprise me; find the reference. quote:Through Evolution.
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Steen Inactive Member |
quote:I have no contempt for you. quote:OK, that's a bit different. Sorry to misunderstand you. That's what I got out of your post. quote:Ah, so you are saying that ALL of evolution has summed up to complexity? I can agree with that. quote:So you are not talking about the process involved in evolution, but about ALL of evolution over the entire 3.5-4 bill years? That really is not how I read your post. And re-reading it, that still was not the message I get from it, but I accept your meaning as you now state it. quote:And I disagree with that. Yes, as I note later, you are now talking about the philosophy of senses. I must insist that what our sense tells us is real. You can call that a "belief" if you want to, but I can not accept that terminology. quote:I can prove the data that I directly observe. quote:Now, THAT is a creationist argument. Sorry but when I deal with science, I am not dwelving into Plato's Cave and other what-ifs. What we see, does really exist and happen. I can not accept the premise that leads to the idea that everything around us was "created" 1 minute ago with implanted false memories and everything. quote:And a good day to you too. quote:I am saying that the process that lead to birds is the process of Evolution. I am NOT saying that you should blindly accept Evolution without learning about it and understand the mechanisms and the Scientific Theory of Evolution itself. This message has been edited by Steen, 06-22-2004 12:27 AM
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Steen Inactive Member |
quote:Yes, we could enter the realm of philosophical speculations, read about Plato's Cave and so on. On the other hand, for science to have any meaning, what we meassure IS real. quote:Likely. quote:Certainly. However, that also is essentially philosophy, not science. Is what you know as "red" really what others perceive as "red"? That can be argued to pieces, but does it matter? In science, when the gague says 2.345, then that is the number, regardless of your philosophy. quote:I really hate to burst your bubble, but my experience with creationists is that they often deliberately lie. My experience is that creationists somehow believe that if they are not vociferously discrediting Evolution, then they go straight to hell, so a bit of lying really doesn't matter to them in the big picture. And that is not a fluke, but rather a consistent impression generated over quite a few years experience. So sorry to say so, but to me a creationist site is lying until proven otherwise. And I did take a look at their site. It is as right-wing fundamentalist intolerant as the worst of them. As for feathers from scales:Dinosauria On-Line "At various stages of development, fetuses were injected with a virus that blocked development of a specific set of proteins in one of their limbs. In chicken embryos, the webbing of the toes were not absorbed and webbed feet were retained. The lack of the proteins also caused the scutes on the foot to develop into feathers. Scutes are the thick scales on the top of a bird's foot (see figure at right). There are smaller scutes on the back of the foot, called scutellae, and scales on the bottom of the digits, called reticulae. Analyses by Alan Brush have shown that bird scutes, scuttelae, claw sheathes, beak sheathes, and scales around the eyes are of the same chemical composition as feathers, *******and are controlled by the same genes.******* The reticulae have been shown to be identical to crocodilian scales both in composition and their location on the DNA strand." Page Not Found(Evaluation of scientific reference in Nature of specific study) Dinosauria On-Line
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Steen Inactive Member |
What nonsense. Lots of birds are more flightless than chickens, because they had no predators that they could escape through flight. The chickens, evolving under protective situations, artificially selected for traits other than flights are perfectly OK with poor flight.
You are as bad as desotobul on the delphi forums.
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Steen Inactive Member |
quote:Which would only be true if the ancient bird was directly proportional to the bird used for comparison. So not alone are you very ignorant of Evolution; rather simple physics concepts also escapes you. Should I conclude that you really don't know ANY science?
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Steen Inactive Member |
quote:Don't act surprised when you find your false claims and misrepresentations challenged.quote:Don't act surprised when you find your comments being ignored...
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